Propane shortage

[groundcover]

Wow, makes the tractor, splitter, saws, chipper etc. look like a deal now !

 

[LD1]

I just filled my 1000 propane tank here in Tx @ 2.44 gal .... for 640 gal. We've used it more this year than past - I can normally just fill once a year in the summer when prices are down. We have a wood stove as backup but use LP for everything that heats except the oven. It also runs the genset every wed a.m. and twice this year with power outages.

Have you considered a heat pump??

Do you have extreme cold spells? or more of a milder climate where temps dont get much below freezing in winter?

What I would consider milder weather is 30's to 40's for lows in the winter on average. And that is where a heatpump shines vs other sources of purchased heat.

 

[Coyote machine]

Propane delivery yesterday, 1000 gallons at 2.99/gal, contracted price from a coop that costs 30/year to join. Tank was so low needle didn't even register! New delivery co to take advantage of the coop pricing/contract. They have no prior usage data except we use over 2000/gal/yr! Could have been a disaster for our house and barn, with the -20* F temps we've been seeing and will continue to see at night for the near future. Driver said we could have run out last night or today! We count on auto delivery, part of the coop pricing deal, and we have always used auto delivery since we're away a lot at random times. We used to use oil fired hydronic baseboard heat throughout the house and didn't have the barn back then, Old oil furnace was from the 70's and needed to die because of lack of efficiency, etc. When we added a 30x30' and 10x15' addition and mudroom we super insulated the new addition with closed cell foam and tore out the baseboard on first floor and ran radiant above the floor in a click lock above sub-floor track system. We added two Buderus GB-142 condensing gas boilers, one in the barn and one in the house. The barn has radiant in concrete floor throughout the 'garage' level, and under floor, (cheaper install for new construction) for apartment above.
The propane fired furnaces are quiet, require virtually no maintenance, and vent and draw combustion air from outside; which eliminates the issues with older style oil boilers sucking air for combustion from the inside of the dwelling.
Anyway, the 1000gallon tank installed outside next to the B&S 20KW auto run/once week ~self test generator, which we purchased from our original installer/propane tank and service supplier, LEAKED for probably a couple of weeks until our GC/builder confirmed the smell at the barn as propane. (Everything was new at the time so lots of off-gassing of materials, so we were not sure what the odor was). We immediately called for a repair on the owned by us tank. Turns out about an hour later the propane truck shows up and FILLS the tank! We thought he had come to repair the leak; he didn't know there was a leak, and filled it full! Next day the guy shows up to check out the install and tells us the tank needs to be drained COMPLETELY! FRIG!:mur::duh:
I was planning on going to Maine to ski with my son and his BF, so I told my wife if I saw a big fireball in the rearview I wouldn't be coming home!
They drained and fixed the tank and the tank company/installer/supplier eventually paid a certain guestimated amount of credit for the lost gas- which I'll never know if I lost or broke even on.:confused3:
BUT, being in VT and it's harsh winter climate has me thinking about what else I can do to mitigate a real shortage where there maybe NO more propane and I won't have any heat source except two mini-split heat pumps and my 2 Buderus solar water collectors. Not a good situation. I do have a small Jotul wood stove and a wood fireplace insert that could be put to use, possibly in case of a real emergency or long term propane 'shortage' or crisis/emergency.
Thanks for reading my long post, hope it helps in some way for others figuring out what to do/not to do.

 

[k0ua]

Have you considered a heat pump??

Do you have extreme cold spells? or more of a milder climate where temps dont get much below freezing in winter?

What I would consider milder weather is 30's to 40's for lows in the winter on average. And that is where a heatpump shines vs other sources of purchased heat.

We are sucking wind on the old heatpump this season. Our last electric bill was almost double what it normally is..The winter here has been harsh, and our heatpump is useless as we are running on auxiliary Resistance heat this time.. Our climate is supposed to be like what you describe, and it normally is, but this time the heat pump cant pump any heat out of the air as there isn't any.:shocked: So we are runnin on that nice resister bank that makes nice warm even heat, and the meter is spinning like it is hooked to a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder. uh. about 11000 rpm.:thumbdown: Heatpumps are popular around here in and further south, but not so good when it gets really cold.. and it has been "darned" cold.!

 

[murphy1244]

We are sucking wind on the old heatpump this season. Our last electric bill was almost double what it normally is..The winter here has been harsh, and our heatpump is useless as we are running on auxiliary Resistance heat this time.. Our climate is supposed to be like what you describe, and it normally is, but this time the heat pump cant pump any heat out of the air as there isn't any.:shocked: So we are runnin on that nice resister bank that makes nice warm even heat, and the meter is spinning like it is hooked to a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder. uh. about 11000 rpm.:thumbdown: Heatpumps are popular around here in and further south, but not so good when it gets really cold.. and it has been "darned" cold.!

Need to use Gas as your auxiliary heat.

 

[k0ua]

Need to use Gas as your auxiliary heat.

We have a gas heater in the basement, but the propane here is $3.85 a gallon (I just checked) and Natural gas is not very close and may be years before they get around to laying pipe to our area.

 

[Coyote machine]

We are sucking wind on the old heatpump this season. Our last electric bill was almost double what it normally is..The winter here has been harsh, and our heatpump is useless as we are running on auxiliary Resistance heat this time.. Our climate is supposed to be like what you describe, and it normally is, but this time the heat pump cant pump any heat out of the air as there isn't any.:shocked: So we are runnin on that nice resister bank that makes nice warm even heat, and the meter is spinning like it is hooked to a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder. uh. about 11000 rpm.:thumbdown: Heatpumps are popular around here in and further south, but not so good when it gets really cold.. and it has been "darned" cold.!

Yes and no. Newest heatpumps are referred to as cold climate heatpumps, and the ones we installed this fall go to -15 without sucking a vortex of electric meter hyperdrive and consequent expense. We received a rebate of $1200 for the two from Efficiency VT as part of a ROI from our new power company's repayment to ratepayers from the old company's rate hikes which were contracted to be paid back to the ratepayers, but of course, they found a way to nulify their obligation on their way out of the deal.
Fujitsu cold climate heat pumps is the brand.
Our house is one of 10 to have around the clock monitoring installed by E.VT to track usage year round for two years. The benefit to us is we get to keep the equip at the end of the study and it charts data on most of our major electric loads free, now and going forward.
The one disadvantage is the -15* pumps haven't yet designed a dual head single unit. This means we had to install 2 to do an upstairs and downstairs bedroom instead of one unit like we could have if we used the one which only goes to 10*F. I priced out the different options an definitely the -15*F ones are best suited to our location. The cost difference was offset by the 'seer' rating, which is an indicator of efficiency, so for the reasons given we bought the more efficient/ -15*F units.
They are super quiet, mount a sleek small footprint unit inside and E. VT only required that they be installed on an available wall bracket 18" off the ground.
We also wanted them for the AC in summer. They blast ac quietly and do an excellent job of making the bedrooms an oasis instead of a jungle in the hot summer months here in VT.
I really wanted quiet units for sleeping, and they are superb at that task too.

Here's a link to a guy who has an older unit installed, and pics and a comment section at the bottom of the review well worth reading. It is NOT the newer type that goes to -15*F, but the pics show the unit inside and out which is essentially the same. There are probably other reviews since then of the newer -15*F units, so check Google for cold climate heat pump reviews.

Fujitsu 15RLS2 Heat Pump Installed - My Initial Thoughts | Quadomated

 

[dirt ditch]

We had the propane tank filled yesterday at $2.47 a gallon. Wife went to the COOP this morning to pay bill. They told her good thing we filled up yesterday. New shipment of propane made today's price $3.40 a gallon. Wife was told that trucks are coming as far away as Pennsylvania for loads out of Kansas. Now it is cheaper for the COOP to buy from Arizona and have it hauled here. Wood is our main heat and we have plenty on hand. We have enough propane to get to summer when the price will be back down.

 

[SPIKER]

cheapest tank costs I could find was thru these people, the local companies only want to contract lease tanks and won't sell. Last cold spell coming in I called and had min amount put in the tank 200 gallons cost me nearly $800.00 Last fall I figured on buying and having it filled when I called tank was at 15% to buy they said 3 months and 3 something for first fill (required for them to do.) I passed and will wait till next spring or maybe net summer prices. with the 200 gallons should last till next spring.

THRIFTY PROPANE
CALL TODAY 800-879-3152
OR
VISIT US ON THE WEB: Propane Delivery, Propane Tank Replacement | Affordable Propane

 

[Larry Caldwell]

.

If you have Microsoft Excel available download this spreadsheet:
http://www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls
(which you then modify with whatever values you need to change (cost of fuels...)

If you don't try this hearth.com calculator:
Fuel Cost Comparison Calculator

You don't need to pay for an office suite, just download LibreOffice. It is an open source office suite that reads and writes all MS Office documents. It has all the Excel formulae.

LibreOffice 4.1 is here!