Propane shortage

[batwing]

No real dog in this fight since we use no Propane whatsoever, but here in the city on our November NG bill we used 100 therms which with all the extra fees, taxes & etc., came to about $1.05 per therm all included. Can't say what they charge up in the country since we have had the NG disconnected for many years (there is a NG line running along the road). Our house in the city is almost all gas for cooking, water heater, clothes dryer & heat. Electric bill is minimal except during the hot, muggy summer when we run the AC.

In planning to build a new house out of our barn frame we are considering going geothermal (possibly a horizontal ground loop system), with NG as a backup, but are still considering what will be best. Having 80 acres of mostly woods the temptation to burn wood is high, but I have to consider ease of use for my spouse if something happens to me.

I would put NG with floor heat, you would love it.

 

[teejk]

I heard this morning about a big dairy farmer in our neighborhood (central Wis) that had locked-in the price with the Co-op (it's a an election you make in July that costs money that is supposed to allow them to buy futures contracts) and also was enrolled in "keep-fill" (meaning you get it according to your usage pattern whether you need it or not). They didn't honor the keep-fill and when they showed up he was limited to 150 gals at $5.02/gal. They aren't honoring the lock-in agreement either. Last year our highest price was $1.49. Do the math on $5.02 one year later. Whoever is manipulating the market has over-shot the "flying below the radar" level and there will be a lot of questions and hopefully some justice. Like in taxes or any market or life in general, pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered.

 

[batwing]

Fill your tank as close to Fall as you can or better yet, buy a second tank and stock up.

Yes like stocking up with shells has done a great Job, that's what happened to gas in the rationing days.

 

[teejk]

I would put NG with floor heat, you would love it.

I installed the in-floor heat in our entire house (suspended tubing looped through the floor joists with aluminum fins and insulated from the bottom, in effect creating a heated air pocket below the sub floors) using a very expensive Weil McLain tankless modulating boiler. I don't think there is any money advantage with in-floor radiant heat but the overall comfort level can't be compared to anything else. I have it in my shop building also (imbedded in the slab) running with a high efficiency tank water heater. There is something in the brain that says if your feet and legs are warm, you are warm all over. Neither building was "fun" to install (we did the tubing ourselves) but worth it. If propane prices don't relax, I'll be looking at an auxilary fule source to tie into the existing systems.

 

[rmorey]

We bought a new Generac 14kW generator earlier this month. I called my supplier and told them I needed a pair of 420 litre tanks to run it. They said they would be a month getting to us. Called another supplier and they came out the next day with the tanks.

Two days later, they came and filled them. $0.935 per litre. Ouch! :shocked:

 

[batwing]

I installed the in-floor heat in our entire house (suspended tubing looped through the floor joists with aluminum fins and insulated from the bottom, in effect creating a heated air pocket below the sub floors) using a very expensive Weil McLain tankless modulating boiler. I don't think there is any money advantage with in-floor radiant heat but the overall comfort level can't be compared to anything else. I have it in my shop building also (imbedded in the slab) running with a high efficiency tank water heater. There is something in the brain that says if your feet and legs are warm, you are warm all over. Neither building was "fun" to install (we did the tubing ourselves) but worth it. If propane prices don't relax, I'll be looking at an auxilary fule source to tie into the existing systems.

Ours is also under floor but I have been told if you put the tubing on top it is more efficient, we have a pellet boiler in the basement we use when it gets 25deg works good love floor heat.

 

[ultrarunner]

We own our tank since 1964...

Every couple of years they try to charge rent on our tank and I have to remind them it is OURS.

The problems seem to come everytime there is a management or ownership change.

Last year they simply said it was imposible and I had to pull out the reciept to prove it again.

Maybe I should convert to NG?

 

[teejk]

Ours is also under floor but I have been told if you put the tubing on top it is more efficient, we have a pellet boiler in the basement we use when it gets 25deg works good love floor heat.

+/-'s to above or below. Above floor in gypcrete has a longer response time and you have to double up the bottom plates on the walls to accommodate the tubing and topping to be able to buy standard doors. And you have to be more careful with any nail/screw. The under floor is a PITA to install and requires insulation on the bottom of the floor joists to create the air pocket. Our tubing is suspended 3" below the bottom of the subfloor using "snake hangers" so screws/nails from above are not so critical. And the "below" permits higher boiler temps (I think gypcrete is limited to 120F whereas we can run at 140F). Either way the heat still remains in the envelope of the building so I think that is a push. But radiant is still a much nicer heat than forced air...evenly distributed, quiet, no drafts and reduced airborne dust (you will always get dust moving simply by warm air moving to cold and vice versa).

 

[kenmac]

I don't use propane , but many in my State do. I really wonder it it's a true shortage or someone is just trying to get the prices up. This isn't the 1 st. we've seen cold weather like this... The Governor has issued a state of emergency Bentley declares state of emergency over propane shortage - TimesDaily: State

 

[deerseeker001]

They also declared a state of a emergency here in Wisconsin.