Ford 4600 solenoid wiring

[geoffst]

I need help hooking the wires back up to the solenoid switch.....can't seem to find a good diagram. An explanation of what each of the four posts is for would be very helpful.

Thanks!

 

[Dave M7040]

It would have been helpful if there were more images but from what I see:
Terminal 1 would be a spade terminal coming from the ignition switch and would have power when you turn it to the start position.
Terminal 2 would connect to the heavy wire from the starter motor.
Terminal 3 would be the main battery cable
Terminals 4 & 5 may not be electrical terminals but rather part of what secures the solenoid to the starter or hold the solenoid together.

Dave M7040

 

[geoffst]

Thanks Dave. I put the starter back together and installed it but I don't even get a click when I turn the key. New starter, new battery and new cables....You will see in the photos that I put the small red wire from the tractor on the same post as the positive cable coming from the battery (not sure this is correct) Any help diagnosing this "lack of power" would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Dave M7040]

Thanks Dave. I put the starter back together and installed it but I don't even get a click when I turn the key. New starter, new battery and new cables....You will see in the photos that I put the small red wire from the tractor on the same post as the positive cable coming from the battery (not sure this is correct) Any help diagnosing this "lack of power" would be much appreciated. Thanks!

View attachment 358685View attachment 358686View attachment 358687View attachment 358688

To trouble shoot you will need a test light which costs $20 or less either on e-bay or at an autoparts store.

I am concerned or puzzled by your story. You say you put the starter back together but then say new starter etc.
If you had anything to do with the starter, even if just installing a new solenoid, you should test it on the bench before installing it.
Clamp it in a vice or in some way secure it as it will want to rotate and could fall off the bench.
Using jumper cables, connect the positive cable from a good battery to the solenoid terminal where you currently have the battery cable connected. Connect the ground cable from the battery to the frame of the starter. Use a short length of wire to connect from the spade terminal on the solenoid to the large battery terminal on the solenoid. The starter should work instantly. If this does not happen you have a problem that has nothing to do with the tractor.
If the starter works on the bench then we can proceed to diagnose what is wrong. The first step would be to ground the alligator clip on the test light to the negative terminal on the battery and touch the probe to the spade terminal on the solenoid. When you turn the key to start the test light should light. If it does not let me know and we will go further.
Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

Thanks Dave. I put the starter back together and installed it but I don't even get a click when I turn the key. New starter, new battery and new cables....You will see in the photos that I put the small red wire from the tractor on the same post as the positive cable coming from the battery (not sure this is correct) Any help diagnosing this "lack of power" would be much appreciated. Thanks!

View attachment 358685View attachment 358686View attachment 358687View attachment 358688

I have been studying the pictures you posted and am a little puzzled as I cannot see things clearly. If you have time, remove all wiring and take a picture. Things look different compared to the first picture of the solenoid you posted.

Dave m7040

 

[geoffst]

I took the starter off and tested it on the bench by hooking it up as you instructed. When I make the connection, the part of the starter with the teeth extends clear out but does not spin..

Do I have something wired incorrectly?

 

[deerseeker001]

Welcome from Wisconsin

 

[Dave M7040]

I took the starter off and tested it on the bench by hooking it up as you instructed. When I make the connection, the part of the starter with the teeth extends clear out but does not spin..View attachment 359303View attachment 359304

Do I have something wired incorrectly?

Since the starter is not spinning, something is not correct. Can you tell me what exactly is new. Is it just the solenoid? The starter does not look new so I am wondering did the copper bars come with the solenoid ? Without being able to touch things with my multimeter, I am puzzled by the two electrical connections on or from the body of the starter. One being the braided insulated copper wire with the ring terminal on the end of it and the second being the insulated stud where you have the copper bar connected. Is there a brand name on the starter, perhaps Lucas.
Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

If you go to the web page with this link you can see your starter in detail by hovering over the image.
Starter, Lucas, Case IH, David Brown, Ford New Holland
I cannot see anything connected incorrectly with what you have done.
I am waiting to hear from you on the history of your starter.
Dave M7040

 

[geoffst]

Hi Dave

Here is the rest of the story.....the tractor hasn't started well for some time and a few months back it wouldn't start at all so I decided to replace the old parts since nothing had been touched for many years. I replaced the cables, battery and starter. Unfortunately the day I did it was very cold and since I was having trouble even feeling my fingers I managed to strip most of the copper studs when bolting on the wires and therefore didn't get a good connection. I took the starter off and then worked on the solenoid but couldn't get it apart to replace the studs so I bought a new solenoid on ebay. I normally take pictures before removing things but this time I didn't so I just did the best I could to rewire things...obviously incorrectly. Thanks for your help.

 

[geoffst]

Hi Dave

Here is the rest of the story.....the tractor hasn't started well for some time and a few months back it wouldn't start at all so I decided to replace the old parts since nothing had been touched for many years. I replaced the cables, battery and starter. Unfortunately the day I did it was very cold and since I was having trouble even feeling my fingers I managed to strip most of the copper studs when bolting on the wires and therefore didn't get a good connection. I took the starter off and then worked on the solenoid but couldn't get it apart to replace the studs so I bought a new solenoid on ebay. I normally take pictures before removing things but this time I didn't so I just did the best I could to rewire things...obviously incorrectly. Thanks for your help. View attachment 359416View attachment 359417View attachment 359418

The starter has no name on it anywhere....

 

[geoffst]

here is the link to the starter that I purchased......

New Starter Ford Tractor Farm 4330 4340 4400 4410 4500 4600 4610 5100 5200 | eBay

 

[geoffst]

Is there an easy way to bypass the solenoid and bench test the starter directly?

 

[Dave M7040]

Is there an easy way to bypass the solenoid and bench test the starter directly?

Geoff
Your Lucas style or clone starter is unusual in that there are two connections coming from the body of the starter. This makes me a little hesitant in just having you jump in.
Could you do this one test for me. Provide power to the main bat terminal on the starter and then put power to extend the starter gear as you had done previously.
While the gear is extended, using a light of some kind, either a test light or 12 volt bulb with leads, ground one lead and then touch the other lead to each of the lower terminals on the solenoid. The one with the copper bar going to the insulated stud and then to the terminal with the braided wire connected to it. If you get power to each of these terminals it would be useful to know.
This afternoon I am going to drop in to see a local guy whose business is starter repair and should him your picture to see if he has any wisdom to give me. I have to get him in a good mood to provide free advice
Sorry I cannot be more direct as this time but don't want to have you post that a large cloud of acrid smoke came out of the starter.
Where is Maple Ridge?
Dave M7040

 

[geoffst]

Thanks Dave. Maple Ridge is in New Brunswick

 

[geoffst]

I hooked it back up and tested both terminals (with the copper bar going to the insulated stud and with the braided wire connected to it) and I get power to each of them - used a light tester I just picked up at Canadian Tire.

 

[Dave M7040]

I hooked it back up and tested both terminals (with the copper bar going to the insulated stud and with the braided wire connected to it) and I get power to each of them - used a light tester I just picked up at Canadian Tire.

I took the picture of your starter to a guy who has a business repairing starters and alternators. He explained that your solenoid is a two stage one. For example, if the starter gear did not engage with the flywheel gear when you turned the key to start, the solenoid would apply power to the braided wire which supplies one field coil. This would cause the starter to rotate slightly so that the gears could mesh. The action of the gear extending fully allows the hardware inside the solenoid to complete the circuit to supply power to the insulated stud connected with the copper bar. This powers all the field coils and the starter rotates with full power.

The fact that you are finding power at both terminals with the test light makes me very suspicious that something is wrong inside the starter. However, there is a stud on the rear cover of the starter which should have a large ground wire connected to it. I don't think this is any different than grounding the case of the starter but it would be prudent to try it this way.
Dave M7040

 

[geoffst]

I tried grounding to the stud and got power the same as before......

 

[Dave M7040]

At this point all I can suggest is to try touching the positive battery cable to the insulated stud on the starter case with the ground cable connected to the case or the stud you just tried. If the starter does not spin then you need to find a starter repair shop. Sorry I cannot think of anything else to do.
Dave m7040

 

[geoffst]

Hi Dave

Well, it didn't spin....so I took the end off the starter and discovered that two of the four brushes had broken loose....the welds were broken.

So, I have purchased a new brush holder (with the two brushes attached) from Ebay for $16.

Thanks so much for your help! I learned a lot.

Geoff