Nwebie CK25 Not running

[JHack]

****-o,
I have an 06 CK 25 that had ignition switch issues and then started stalling but would restart but only idle. It sat overnight and I ran fine yesterday. I went ahead and replaced the electrical part of the ignition switch. It ran fine and then free revved at 2500 and would not shut off. It finally went back to idle and I turned it off with the key. Now it will not restart at all, it does turn over. Any ideas?

 

[SSdoxie]

What you described (high rev, won't shut off, then wouldn't restart) is the classic symptom of injection pump rail failure. Gear broken in the fuel rail.

 

[JHack]

I've seen posts about it on here. I was an auto mechanic at one time but know nothing of diesel. Is this something I might be able to repair myself? Any leads on here of attempting that? my searches have come up empty.

 

[Briana03]

Welcome to TractorByNet!

I moved your thread to the Kioti Owning & Operating forum.

 

[VictorW]

I agree with SSdoxie. I believe your year of tractor was one of a few that had the injection pump gear problems. I was also a mechanic with no diesel experience but I'm sure you can handle this job. Unfortunately, a new injection pump is around $1000. A member was trying to keep track of the years of pump failures and it seems like 2006-2008. Another member posted this company, diesel fuel injection turbo, Conestoga Diesel Injection injector fuel pump turbocharger willow street pa Willow Street, PA Home, that can repair the pump. If you search for other injection pump posts, you'll see pictures from other members who have disassembled their pump and the broken teeth on the gears. This post, the member found new gears and was repairing it himself. Ck 25 Injection pump rail timimg???. Here's another, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/254132-ck25-injection-pump.html. Another, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/255565-ck30-injection-pump.html. Another, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/225273-injector-pump-failure.html.

 

[murphy1244]

I agree with SSdoxie. I believe your year of tractor was one of a few that had the injection pump gear problems. I was also a mechanic with no diesel experience but I'm sure you can handle this job. Unfortunately, a new injection pump is around $1000. A member was trying to keep track of the years of pump failures and it seems like 2006-2008. Another member posted this company, diesel fuel injection turbo, Conestoga Diesel Injection injector fuel pump turbocharger willow street pa Willow Street, PA Home, that can repair the pump. If you search for other injection pump posts, you'll see pictures from other members who have disassembled their pump and the broken teeth on the gears. This post, the member found new gears and was repairing it himself. Ck 25 Injection pump rail timimg???. Here's another, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/254132-ck25-injection-pump.html. Another, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/255565-ck30-injection-pump.html. Another, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/225273-injector-pump-failure.html.

Lots of good info there, Good job! :thumbsup:

 

[GMtb42]

I agree with SSdoxie. I believe your year of tractor was one of a few that had the injection pump gear problems. I was also a mechanic with no diesel experience but I'm sure you can handle this job. Unfortunately, a new injection pump is around $1000. A member was trying to keep track of the years of pump failures and it seems like 2006-2008. Another member posted this company, diesel fuel injection turbo, Conestoga Diesel Injection injector fuel pump turbocharger willow street pa Willow Street, PA Home, that can repair the pump. If you search for other injection pump posts, you'll see pictures from other members who have disassembled their pump and the broken teeth on the gears. This post, the member found new gears and was repairing it himself. Ck 25 Injection pump rail timimg???. Here's another, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/254132-ck25-injection-pump.html. Another, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/255565-ck30-injection-pump.html. Another, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/225273-injector-pump-failure.html.

Would be nice if we could get a Admin to sticky this to the top of this thread section, making it a lot easier in the future to find.

 

[Gittyup]

Yep. Sounds exactly like my '06 CK25. Injection pump. How many hours? They usually failed around 300 or so. Mine failed at 330 hrs as I recall. Luckily still under warranty. I'd the rebuild route first, since you have mechanical skills and contacts too, I'm guessing.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Here is the link to the IP failure data I've been collecting: http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Kioti_IP_Data. There are links embedded in that spread sheet that may be helpful.

Before you do too much, verify that the IP is your actual problem. Remove the cover plate with the oil fill port on the right front side of the the engine. This should expose the pin that controls the IP rack. With the stop solenoid (another possible cause of your problem) removed the rack (pin) should move smoothly by finger pressure. If it is jammed or binds, you have a problem with the expensive injection pump.

If you remove the IP, don't lose the gaskets or shims, they set the injection timing. You WILL want a service manual before going into the engine. You can buy one from any Kioti dealer. The service manual isn't great but it's better than nothing. There are good, free online parts manuals like this one.

A new IP will cost about $1000 from Kioti. The same part should be cheaper from a Bobcat dealer. You may be able to repair your current IP (by replacing damaged gears) if you have a local Diesel shop that repairs IPs.

Several list members have replaced their IPs successfully.

 

[ritcheyvs]

duplicate deleted

 

[SSdoxie]

Part number for injection pump from Bobcat is 7010240 if you want to do a price comparison. Might want to start with Kioti dealer first, they might be able to get a partial warranty discount because of the "known" problem.

 

[JHack]

Okay so after speaking by phone to Tony, another member I decided to tear it apart. It didn't take very long at all and with the intake removed it lifts straight out. I guess I was lucky because the rack was jammed in the center position. Once I laid it on the bench it magically freed up. I took it apart (IP) and the #2 pump gear had a single tooth sheared off and embedded in the rack. Given my current financial situation (divorced) I really cant afford to replace the pump. I am trying to find a place to buy gears, I may just rotate them and slam it back together. I did contact Kioti customer service and left two messages and so far there has been no response. 06 CK 25, 275 hours. Purchased new in 07 with 2 hours on it. Thank you to everyone that has been so helpful. I will post on the outcome one way or the other.

 

[Fuggley]

Okay so after speaking by phone to Tony, another member I decided to tear it apart. It didn't take very long at all and with the intake removed it lifts straight out. I guess I was lucky because the rack was jammed in the center position. Once I laid it on the bench it magically freed up. I took it apart (IP) and the #2 pump gear had a single tooth sheared off and embedded in the rack. Given my current financial situation (divorced) I really cant afford to replace the pump. I am trying to find a place to buy gears, I may just rotate them and slam it back together. I did contact Kioti customer service and left two messages and so far there has been no response. 06 CK 25, 275 hours. Purchased new in 07 with 2 hours on it. Thank you to everyone that has been so helpful. I will post on the outcome one way or the other.

I could use gears too. I have one with a tooth busted off clean in the middle, so I can't really rotate it. Also, the other 2 gears show wear. They look like real brittle metal components to me.
Let us know if you find a supplier.

 

[JHack]

Mine only had one tooth sheared off. You just turn it 180 from the rack. The pictures another member posted for time were indispensable. Make sure you thoroughly check the rack because I had to clear the broken tooth from the rack. It was fairly easy to do. I don't trust the repair however and will limit use of the tractor until I can find a set of gears or save for a new pump.

 

[JHack]

Feed Pump,Hand Primers, Valves, Filter Assembly,Test Bench
The above site claims to be a manufacturer in India that manufactures these pumps. I sent them an e-mail to see about purchasing gears and a rack for the IP. I will let you know if I get anything back.

As for the repair? The tractor is successfully running once again and out of the woods. I made my own intake gasket as the local dealer didn't have it in stock. For those of you that have done this it is really easy especially with a gasket punch. The photos for injection timing were invaluable. So with gasket material and a tube of the grey RTV a total cost of $10 dollars and a couple hours working on it, maybe a little more but not much. Some things I learned are to just take the hood off. Remove the injector lines completely and remove the intake manifold. Take the throttle stop out and the other piece on the other side of the housing. The pump will lift straight out if the rack is not jammed to one side. In my opinion the gears are a porous very hard material that I have seen before in Asian products. It does appear to have a high potential for shearing off. Reading other posts I wonder if the idea of the throttle stop contributing to the issue. I will say that I had been having issues with the ignition switch for awhile and even after disassembly and cleaning it still gave trouble. I would definitely say that for those of us that have dealt with that it certainly doesn't help the throttle stop question regarding the gears.
The tractor does seem to run much better, idles smoother and seems to respond more quickly at the throttle. I am happy to have it running with little cost but I am afraid of the potential of another failure and a runaway diesel you can't shut off. I will continue search for repair parts. I want to thank everyone that has been so helpful. If anyone needs or wants any help regarding attempting this repair feel free to e-mail me and I will give you my cell number.

 

[VictorW]

If you do have a runaway, block off the air intake as fast as you can. It will stop. This one is tough because the air cleaner box intake is just above the battery. One of those posts in my prior post has a member who bought gears from I assume an injector company close to him. Maybe he can help for a supplier.

 

[SSdoxie]

If really concerned about runaway RPM, put an inline electric shut-off valve in fuel line close to where it goes into the injection pump. A quick search in Amazon.com, I found this one. Amazon.com: DC 12V 1/4 Inch Electric Solenoid Valve for Air Water / High Quality Replacement Brass Valve for Use with Pipelines in Water, Air and Diesel Applications: Home Improvement

 

[CJONE]

If really concerned about runaway RPM, put an inline electric shut-off valve in fuel line close to where it goes into the injection pump. A quick search in Amazon.com, I found this one. Amazon.com: DC 12V 1/4 Inch Electric Solenoid Valve for Air Water / High Quality Replacement Brass Valve for Use with Pipelines in Water, Air and Diesel Applications: Home Improvement

A ball valve will do the trick also. A little more difficult to get to but it will work. CJ

 

[JHack]

So I faxed Kioti and finally got a call back. The short version is I was told they wouldn't help with anything. Not even repair parts. I explained that I wasn't looking for anything free! I was told I would need to buy a pump! I was also told I wouldn't be able to get the pump apart and back together. Ha! Anyway I am just going to run it and I will put a fuel shut off in between the filter and pump.

 

[Fuggley]

So I faxed Kioti and finally got a call back. The short version is I was told they wouldn't help with anything. Not even repair parts. I explained that I wasn't looking for anything free! I was told I would need to buy a pump! I was also told I wouldn't be able to get the pump apart and back together. Ha! Anyway I am just going to run it and I will put a fuel shut off in between the filter and pump.

Sorry to hear you got one of the IP pumps with brittle gears that Kioti refuses to take any responsibility for, i.e., unless it occurs during your warranty period. There should be recall laws. It can be very dangerous when the gears on these get stuck. The problem is constantly chatted up on this site. Best of luck with your gear rotation repair!