So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[houstonscott]

Protectionism is the answer. The regulations we have are those the auto industry lobbied for. If you drive diesel vehicle that makes 12 mpg you pollute significantly more than small diesel car that does 45 mpg even though it has marginally less clean exhaust. So if you would have to pay road tax based on pollution your vehicle emits large engines will get penalized no matter how clean their exhaust would be. The regulations is designed to keep small diesels out of the market. It is in the same category as the 5 mph bumpers that were supposed to increase mass of small cars by large margin ( it worked about 6 month until the manufacturers of small cars came up with light design) or regulations requiring vertical head lamps lenses. It was designed to keep small earodynamic cars out of the market. It also worked only short time. Some cars got "bug eyes" and other got pop up lights. The list is long.

Not sure where you are getting your information, diesel produces less CO2 than gas when burned. Period, it is just a fact, the chemical process of burning diesel produces less CO2 than gas. The process does produce more NOx, but if CO2 is your main concern than diesel trumps gas straight up. Now with modern clean diesels using AG Blue technology diesels are cleaner than gas. Plus they use a fuel that is lower on the cracker and requires significantly less energy to refine, while packing 30% more energy! the reason for milage advantage over gas. Diesel is a far safer fuel. Now let's talk bio, bio diesel fuels really work, the process produces a fuel with more energy than the process, which isn't true of ethanol. There simply is no reason not move to diesel, it's the answer and it right in your face. There is no pie in the sky other thing to move to, weather energy simply isn't going to do the job. And no one wants nuke. The least efficient thing, worst thing you could possibly do, with your fuels, is to make electricity with it and put it in an electric car. You are simply convinced of something that's not true. What's going on now is the greens and their lobbyist and organizations are slowing the progress and setting efficiencies back by decades. Now we must waist time trying convince you electric cars are not what you thought they were and a waste of time that could be used improving and reducing our energy consumption on the highways and moving to high pressure diesels and bio-diesel. Greens have become part of the problem, getting sucked into this electric car sideline stuff. Take your Leaf, get out your Honda generator, and charge it up and see how many of gas it takes to charge it, then drive the miles and I'll think you will find the true milage of the Leaf at 1-3mpg. HS.

 

[IXLR8]

Now what do you do in states and provinces where there are annual or bi-annual visual inspections and tailpipe tests ?

You spent the $2K and fix it right. The state I live in now doesn't do tailpipe tests, they don't even do OBD port 'inspections' looking for error codes like they did in the last state I lived in. Most of the mechanics have so little experience dealing with diesels they wouldn't know if something was missing or not.
I will say that with all the proper pieces in place there is absolutely no diesel stink from my car and I like that, I hope I never have to make the choice.

 

[houstonscott]

You spent the $2K and fix it right. The state I live in now doesn't do tailpipe tests, they don't even do OBD port 'inspections' looking for error codes like they did in the last state I lived in. Most of the mechanics have so little experience dealing with diesels they wouldn't know if something was missing or not. I will say that with all the proper pieces in place there is absolutely no diesel stink from my car and I like that, I hope I never have to make the choice.

Hard to tell these greens the diesel smoke and smell has been gone for almost 15 years now. That their Eureka fuel is diesel, and bio-diesel. Some of the hybrid technology has improved all cars and milage by a few mpg's and every technology helps, but adds costs and maintenance. BMW is using energy recovery braking in their all their cars including diesels. Alternator's, radiator fans, power steering pumps are all electric now, not robbing the engine of power and milage, and brake recovery energy is used to keep starting battery up, slick way to improve milage without adding hundreds of pounds of batteries and electric motors, the killer in a hybrid. HS

 

[3930dave]

Not sure where you are getting your information, diesel produces less CO2 than gas when burned. Period, it is just a fact, the chemical process of burning diesel produces less CO2 than gas. The process does produce more NOx, but if CO2 is your main concern than diesel trumps gas straight up. Now with modern clean diesels using AG Blue technology diesels are cleaner than gas. Plus they use a fuel that is lower on the cracker and requires significantly less energy to refine, while packing 30% more energy! the reason for milage advantage over gas. Diesel is a far safer fuel. Now let's talk bio, bio diesel fuels really work, the process produces a fuel with more energy than the process, which isn't true of ethanol. There simply is no reason not move to diesel, it's the answer and it right in your face. There is no pie in the sky other thing to move to, weather energy simply isn't going to do the job. And no one wants nuke. The least efficient thing, worst thing you could possibly do, with your fuels, is to make electricity with it and put it in an electric car. You are simply convinced of something that's not true. What's going on now is the greens and their lobbyist and organizations are slowing the progress and setting efficiencies back by decades. Now we must waist time trying convince you electric cars are not what you thought they were and a waste of time that could be used improving and reducing our energy consumption on the highways and moving to high pressure diesels and bio-diesel. Greens have become part of the problem, getting sucked into this electric car sideline stuff. Take your Leaf, get out your Honda generator, and charge it up and see how many of gas it takes to charge it, then drive the miles and I'll think you will find the true milage of the Leaf at 1-3mpg. HS.

Unfortunately, so few people in the general public understand the technical characteristics of diesel fuel (cracking tower and energy characteristics) that the US govt (and by default Canada too) gets away with demonizing diesels. While at the same time talking out of the other side of their mouths about Energy Efficiency and Security.

We need every new diesel here to be succesful. Esp. I'm thinking of the Cruze.

Rgds, D.

 

[buickanddeere]

I don't know how the diesel has CO2 than gasoline statement is being calculated . Per gallon or per but? Gasoline has more hydrogen than diesel and this more water was a byproduct of combustion. Diesel has more carbon on the molecular chain . More CO2 produced than gasoline .
Not that there is anything wrong with CO2 . The green weenie safety nazis's had to find a tailpipe demon after manufactures almost eliminated CO, NOX, HCL and soot. Can't be out of a job or social position protecting the poor dumb peasants from themselves.

 

[3930dave]

I don't know how the diesel has CO2 than gasoline statement is being calculated . Per gallon or per but? Gasoline has more hydrogen than diesel and this more water was a byproduct of combustion. Diesel has more carbon on the molecular chain . More CO2 produced than gasoline .
Not that there is anything wrong with CO2 . The green weenie safety nazis's had to find a tailpipe demon after manufactures almost eliminated CO, NOX, HCL and soot. Can't be out of a job or social position protecting the poor dumb peasants from themselves.

Personally, I'm waiting for the plan to light up the entire planet at night, to keep those pesky plants (as in vegetation) from emitting CO2 !

Yeah.... That's the Ticket ! :thumbsup:

Rgds, D.

 

[Loren49]

TDI Academy: Clean Diesel vs. Gasoline - Think Blue - VW.com
Clean Diesel vs. Gasoline: Fuels/Emissions

In technical terms, diesel fuel has an energy density of about 147,000 BTUs; gasoline has an energy density of 125,000 BTUs. In other words, it takes less diesel fuel to do the same work as a gallon of gas. Combine that with a diesel engine’s design, and you’ve got an engine/fuel combination that is 30-35 percent more efficient than its gasoline-powered competition.

But how is diesel “clean”? We all remember the black clouds of smoke and noxious fumes. Gasoline and diesel fuel are both derived from crude oil, but diesel was subjected to less refining and as a result had a heavier odor and a dark color that resulted in black clouds of sooty exhaust.

But that was then, and the result was emission levels that were not accepted in all states.
Things started to change in 2007 when all new diesel vehicles sold in the United States were required to run on ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) fuel. ULSD has a sulfur content of 15 parts per million (ppm), compared to 500 parts per million in regular diesel fuel, which will be completely erased from the U.S. marketplace by the end of 2010. Much of the dirty, black smoke that many people associate with diesel exhaust is due to rich sulfur content; with more refined ULSD, less sulfur leads to cleaner emissions.

Clean Diesel vs. Gasoline: Summary

For some, the image of an old diesel firing off black smoke will be a hard one to forget. But the fact is the days of dirty diesels are gone, and considering incentives and maintenance costs, clean diesel technology is much more affordable than most people think.

Loren

 

[buickanddeere]

TDI Academy: Clean Diesel vs. Gasoline - Think Blue - VW.com
Clean Diesel vs. Gasoline: Fuels/Emissions

In technical terms, diesel fuel has an energy density of about 147,000 BTUs; gasoline has an energy density of 125,000 BTUs. In other words, it takes less diesel fuel to do the same work as a gallon of gas. Combine that with a diesel engine痴 design, and you致e got an engine/fuel combination that is 30-35 percent more efficient than its gasoline-powered competition.

But how is diesel 田lean? We all remember the black clouds of smoke and noxious fumes. Gasoline and diesel fuel are both derived from crude oil, but diesel was subjected to less refining and as a result had a heavier odor and a dark color that resulted in black clouds of sooty exhaust.

But that was then, and the result was emission levels that were not accepted in all states.
Things started to change in 2007 when all new diesel vehicles sold in the United States were required to run on ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) fuel. ULSD has a sulfur content of 15 parts per million (ppm), compared to 500 parts per million in regular diesel fuel, which will be completely erased from the U.S. marketplace by the end of 2010. Much of the dirty, black smoke that many people associate with diesel exhaust is due to rich sulfur content; with more refined ULSD, less sulfur leads to cleaner emissions.

Clean Diesel vs. Gasoline: Summary

For some, the image of an old diesel firing off black smoke will be a hard one to forget. But the fact is the days of dirty diesels are gone, and considering incentives and maintenance costs, clean diesel technology is much more affordable than most people think.

Loren

That attachment was written by a know nothing. 500ppm was just an interim sulphur level. Diesel used to be up to 1.5% sulphur. Figure how many ppm that was. Sulphur does not make smoke. The 15ppm ULS fuel allows the use of particular filters which trap soot and to some degree smoke.
High pressure common rail injection also reduces smoke with improved fuel atomization .Along with the ECM matching fuel to airflow.
The primary source of smoke was over fuelling when turbo engines were at max fuel delivery before the turbo had spooled up to full boost. Or an engine over fuelled to obtain max power. Look around . There are dumb azz Bubbas with re-programmed pickup that can roll a black cloud of smoke . From a post 2007 emissions pickup .
As for engine efficiency . A turbo diesel in a HD application operating 24/7 at max power is a hands down winner in efficiency in HP per gallon per hour or gasoline.
Personal highway transportation vehicles are light duty . The diesel engine maybe capable of 400HP but the HP per gallon per hour fuel efficiency drops when operant at 40HP to roll a truck down the highway at 55mph. One of the reasons why modem Diesel engines drop some cylinders when cruising. Slightly loaded turbo doesn't push extra air through the engine which carries combustion heat out the stack. Instead of the heat being used to make combustion chamber pressure.
At 15% load a gasser has higher thermal efficiency than a diesel.
The TDI doesn't loose as much part throttle efficiency as a diesel pickup. The TDI uses an undersized and heavier loaded engine than a pickup.
Last time I checked diesel costs more than gasoline per gallon in North America . Diesels are also more complex and more costly to maintain than even a DI gasser.

 

[Loren49]

buickanddeere - I took another look at the site I posted and now see that it was put there to support the vehicle they're trying to sell. It wasn't a good choice by me. :confused2:

I was trying to find some good, balanced information that compared these fuels. I'll be more careful next time.


I stand corrected again.
Loren

 

[3930dave]

Diesel fuel does have a higher energy content than gasoline. Even more so, once you have to compare it with ethanol contaminated gasoline.

As detailed here, all govts are addicted to fuel tax revenue.

If you leave the gasoline tax where it is, and just "water down" gasoline with ethanol, a govt effectively gets an immediate boost in tax revenue.

They got away with it, in part due to the lack of science knowledge amongst the general public, and the use of a green smokescreen.

Rgds, D.