So much for a Nissan Leaf!

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   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #211  
What is the most equitable way for funds to be raised for highways. On the local (township and county) level in NYS a small percentage of the cost comes from NYS but the rest is raised by real property taxes. How should we raise funds for Federal Bridges and Highways? Is a fuel tax reasonable for a portion of these costs. The cost paving and bridge upkeep is very high and we're behind to a point that bridges have collapsed. How would you do it?

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...20xx/doc12043/01-19-highwayspending_brief.pdf
...federal infrastructure spending in 2009 was $41 billion....not sure what portion was from fuel tax.

Loren
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf!
  • Thread Starter
#212  
I heard, but I don't claim to KNOW, that the environmental problem with diesels was soot, which is supposedly a carcinogen and a nasty polluter. Is that still a problem with the modern diesels?

FWIW, I agree with those who want to get rid of ethanol. Oregon was one of the first states to require it, before the feds required a millions of gallons to be added to gasoline. Oregon subsidized a big ethanol plant which turned around and spent some of that money on politicians campaign funds, then the plant went belly up--but the politicians got reelected. That's how subsidies work, but that's for another thread.
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #213  
I heard, but I don't claim to KNOW, that the environmental problem with diesels was soot, which is supposedly a carcinogen and a nasty polluter. Is that still a problem with the modern diesels?

Modern diesels with their particulate filters there is virtually no soot. Gas engines also generate particles but they are much smaller. There are some studies that indicate that the smaller Gas produced particles may be more dangerous as they go further into the lungs.
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #214  
What is the most equitable way for funds to be raised for highways. On the local (township and county) level in NYS a small percentage of the cost comes from NYS but the rest is raised by real property taxes. How should we raise funds for Federal Bridges and Highways? Is a fuel tax reasonable for a portion of these costs. The cost paving and bridge upkeep is very high and we're behind to a point that bridges have collapsed. How would you do it? http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12043/01-19-highwayspending_brief.pdf ...federal infrastructure spending in 2009 was $41 billion....not sure what portion was from fuel tax. Loren
I think there is more than enough money for roads and highways. What you will find is large chunks of that money is being spent else where on everything from marine ferries, to bike trails, muni bus, light rail, everything but roads, and the same could be said for bridge tolls. The problem is government robbing money from the proper intent and spending it on things that people will not at the ballet box support. The problem is government, not enough taxes. HS
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #215  
I think there is more than enough money for roads and highways. What you will find is large chunks of that money is being spent else where on everything from marine ferries, to bike trails, muni bus, light rail, everything but roads, and the same could be said for bridge tolls. The problem is government robbing money from the proper intent and spending it on things that people will not at the ballet box support. The problem is government, not enough taxes. HS

This is fact!! Social services and welfare is the biggest problem in my area and I suspect its most everywhere. Its nice to know that our property taxes are going to keep the welfare folks free cell phones and cable TV going. Government will always be corrupt and there will never be enough tax for the leaches. If the tax payers have to drive on rough roads thats just to bad.
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #216  
I think there is more than enough money for roads and highways. What you will find is large chunks of that money is being spent else where on everything from marine ferries, to bike trails, muni bus, light rail, everything but roads, and the same could be said for bridge tolls. The problem is government robbing money from the proper intent and spending it on things that people will not at the ballet box support. The problem is government, not enough taxes. HS
I've not seen the money spent this way but, have seen large amounts diverted to other programs and bloated administrative cost that have little to nothing to do with actually maintaining and building transportation. In our county the department is called Roads and Transportation, but should also add "and other stuff for people sticking their hands into the cash bucket".
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #217  
All I'm saying is that gas taxes were collected originally to build and maintain roads. The assumption being if you buy gas your using the roads. The added tax on diesel was a assumption that diesel buyers were primarily commercial and should pay a higher tax since their business operated on a public road, and the vehicles (trucks) were heavier and harder on ware and tear on roads and required more money to maintain. Hence the diesel higher tax. Gas taxes should not be used for any other use. If they weren't there would be plenty of dollars to maintain them. If you want to ride a bus let riders pay for the buses to operate. If you want bike trails let bike owners pay for them. If you want a Marin Ferry let ferry riders pay for it, not road users through their gas tax. If you cross a bridge like the Golden Gate in California your toll should pay for the maintenance of the bridge and not buses. Gas taxes have become a cash cow for special interest groups who can't get their pet projects funded for lack of support. HS
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #218  
I think there is more than enough money for roads and highways. What you will find is large chunks of that money is being spent else where on everything from marine ferries, to bike trails, muni bus, light rail, everything but roads, and the same could be said for bridge tolls. The problem is government robbing money from the proper intent and spending it on things that people will not at the ballet box support. The problem is government, not enough taxes. HS

Some information:
Five myths about your gasoline taxes - CNN.com (from 2011)

The federal gas tax has remained unchanged at 18.4 cents for a gallon of gasoline (and 24.4 cents for diesel) for nearly two decades. It is not indexed to the price of crude oil or inflation, so Americans pay a fixed amount whether oil prices are high or low. Ironically, given today's debate, the last time the gas tax was raised in 1993 was for deficit reduction purposes. Taking inflation into account, the gas tax has eroded to only 11 cents today. This has seriously diminished the ability to pay for infrastructure, with a purchasing power of 45 cents in gas taxes for every dollar in national highway construction costs. This means that only one-half of the transportation investments made since 1993 could be afforded today, even though GDP has grown 55% and demands (vehicle miles traveled) have grown 29%.

3. Gas taxes are unnecessary because the transportation system is paid for in other ways. Not so fast.

America's transportation system is going broke. Revenue for the Highway Trust Fund is derived almost entirely from federal gas taxes and distributed to all 50 states. It covers nearly 80% of the capital costs of federally-funded transportation projects, with states carrying the remainder. From 2008 to 2010, Congress transferred $34.5 billion from general fund revenues to make up the funding shortfall. This stopgap measure was necessary to continue projects that are already in the works. Moreover, deferred maintenance—the failure to care for existing roads and bridges—combined with lost productivity are estimated to add more than $100 billion to the national deficit annually.


http://www.c2es.org/docUploads/a-primer-on-federal-surface-transportation-reauthorization.pdf

Time To Overhaul America's Aging Bridges? : NPR

UPDATED: Drivers Cover Just 51 Percent of U.S. Road Spending | Streetsblog USA

The way we spend on roads has nothing to do with the free market, or even how much people use roads.

“Nationwide in 2010, state and local governments raised $37 billion in motor fuel taxes and $12 billion in tolls and non-fuel taxes, but spent $155 billion on highways,” writes the Tax Foundation’s Joseph Henchman. Another $28 billion of that $155 billion comes from revenue from the federal gas tax."

Fuel usage is down and tax hasn't changed in over 20 years, repair and maintenance costs are up and we are behind on keeping our bridges safe. The fact is that there is not enough money available to keep our bridges and roads in reasonable condition.

The way we spend on roads has nothing to do with the free market, or even how much people use roads.

https://cliffordlaw.com/shocking-statistics-u-s-bridge-collapses/

Age, Deterioration and Funding Remain Core Problems

Eleven percent of the nation’s 607,000 bridges were considered “structurally deficient” in 2012, according to the Federal Highway Commission.

It is an opinion that is not supported by facts that there is a better way to take care of our highways. Federal, State and Local Governments are the best we have. I support doing what we can to make them as efficient as possible.

Loren
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #219  
I believe you speak of the federal gas tax rate, many states have made adjustments, such as Pennsylvania, increased registration this year:



Current FY 2015-16 FY 2017-18 FY Starting July 1, 2019
Basic Passenger Cars $36.00 $37.00 $38.00 Inflationary adjustment
Pick-up Trucks $58.50 $60.00 $62.00 every two years for each
Motorcycles $18.00 $19.00 $20.00 category listed here.
Antiques/Classics/Collectibles $75.00 $77.00 $80.00
Drivers’ License $21.00 $22.00 $23.00


That's just a start, here is the role out:
Shumaker Williams | Fee Changes under Pennsylvania

As for state gas tax, it will be .25 per gallon by 2017, on top of the federal rate.
Where that money goes is anyone's guess, because we have the highest number in the union of deficient bridges, and rank in the top five for the worst roads.

Here is another link I found to see how money migrates to and from states in real time. It also includes county's.
http://www.howmoneywalks.com/irs-tax-migration/
 
   / So much for a Nissan Leaf! #220  
I've seen where some new installations of bridges are incorporating strain-gauges into the main beams - instrumenting this costs next to nothing, compared to the overall cost of covering a span.

While I'm not crazy about some aspects of our total-surveillance society, I'd like to see these load sensing bridges tied in with plate cameras. One severely overloaded truck can do tremendous damage - getting something like this off the road fast can prevent further road/bridge damage, and I'd expect most areas would fine heavily for a non-permited overload.

Rgds, D.
 
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