So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[k0ua]

Why not push nuclear? smaller footprint, more jobs, the energy stays in America and not shipped to foreign lands, and a bigger bang for the buck. Oil and gas are for cars, nukes are for the grid and the leaf, which is the topic of this thread.

So I took your bait, now you can tell me how wrong I am, and twist it back to oil and gas, but really, only a troll would do that, right?

Your not wrong. we are going to have to power those Leaf's and Tesla's some how.. And we are busy closing coal power plants right and left. Mostly Left.

 

[houstonscott]

Why would anyone burn food for fuel with 4000 years of oil and gas at your feet? The idea is at the pinnacle of stupidity. HS

 

[k0ua]

Why would anyone burn food for fuel with 4000 years of oil and gas at your feet? The idea is at the pinnacle of stupidity. HS

I agree, the ethanol thing is a big crock of steaming crap. I fell for it at first, until all the bad info started coming out. And then there are the unintended consequences of raising food prices. Then there are the problems with ruining small engines.. I think we need to develop our oil and natural gas and we need to develop nuclear energy also. The thorium reactors we abandoned back in the 60's because they did not produce weapons grade plutonium seem like a good idea in today's world. Less hazardous waste and what it does make decays much quicker. Plus we in the USA have a lot of thorium to feed these things.

 

[GolfAddict]

An interesting article.
U.S. electricity prices may be going up for good - latimes.com

 

[houstonscott]

A little history on how ethanol got in gasoline; It all started when the EPA decided to get the lead out of gas. Removing the lead caused problems with valve lubrication and a additive was looked for, the first time the masses learned "we need additives" in the fuel. So along came MTBE's to replace lead. Mean time the auto industry improved the valves. Then it was discovered that MTBE's were some of the most deadly carcinogens worse than lead and had gotten into the water supplies all over America especially in California. At this the the low information types just went along and assumed we needed a new additive. And along come ethanol. An additive that though was to clean up the air, especially in the summer driving season. How it worked was to lean the burn in your engine and reduce emissions, nice idea with carbureted cars. Problem was by now most cars were fuel injected and the computer recognized the leaning and richened the mixer. Hence you got worse milage with ethanol fuels. To combine the issue the corn lobby lead by Bob Dole had come into power and mandated the use to benefit farmers. That transitioned into a reduce CO2 argument and ethanol remains in our fuel today with no benefit at all. HS

 

[cqaigy2]

fukushima, chernobyl, not worth the risk, not necessary to take the risk. HS

I agree, if we're going to do more nukes we need to use the newer designs and not those antiquated ones.

 

[ultrarunner]

As mentioned... the two Leaf owners I work with charge with solar...

They both have large arrays at their offices and homes.

Both are MD's and previously had been driving high end German cars...

I realize the manufacture of solar panels is another topic.

Just saying many with means to afford anything they want are on the solar band wagon and own Leafs... plus they get a pass to use the carpool lanes which is no small thing in the SF Bay Area.

 

[RFY T]

Do you know what year they started making engines that could handle the alcohol?

 

[Redneck in training]

A little history on how ethanol got in gasoline; It all started when the EPA decided to get the lead out of gas. Removing the lead caused problems with valve lubrication and a additive was looked for, the first time the masses learned "we need additives" in the fuel. So along came MTBE's to replace lead. Mean time the auto industry improved the valves. Then it was discovered that MTBE's were some of the most deadly carcinogens worse than lead and had gotten into the water supplies all over America especially in California. At this the the low information types just went along and assumed we needed a new additive. And along come ethanol. An additive that though was to clean up the air, especially in the summer driving season. How it worked was to lean the burn in your engine and reduce emissions, nice idea with carbureted cars. Problem was by now most cars were fuel injected and the computer recognized the leaning and richened the mixer. Hence you got worse milage with ethanol fuels. To combine the issue the corn lobby lead by Bob Dole had come into power and mandated the use to benefit farmers. That transitioned into a reduce CO2 argument and ethanol remains in our fuel today with no benefit at all. HS

Alcohol has nothing to do with lubrication. It serves two purposes it is an oxidizer and octane enhancer. Gasoline without octane enhancer has octane number too low for modern high compression engines. There were several enhancers used in history automobile fuel. First it was benzene, followed by tetraethyl lead, MTBE and alcohol. In essence octane additives increases ignition temperature of the fuel preventing knocking caused by ignition of the fuel by heat of compression. Octane enhancers came to attention during WW2 when designers of the aircraft engines were interested in fuel that would allow increasing engine power and efficiency without increasing engine displacement because thermal efficiency and power of combustion engine increases as compression ratio rises.

 

[houstonscott]

Alcohol has nothing to do with lubrication. It serves two purposes it is an oxidizer and octane enhancer. Gasoline without octane enhancer has octane number too low for modern high compression engines. There were several enhancers used in history automobile fuel. First it was benzene, followed by tetraethyl lead, MTBE and alcohol. In essence octane additives increases ignition temperature of the fuel preventing knocking caused by ignition of the fuel by heat of compression. Octane enhancers came to attention during WW2 when designers of the aircraft engines were interested in fuel that would allow increasing engine power and efficiency without increasing engine displacement because thermal efficiency and power of combustion engine increases as compression ratio rises.

I understand that, so do you, but your local NYC dumb dumb doesn't, hence the bait and switch purpose of continuing additives. HS