So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[Loren49]

I think we have been duped, and we are stupid enough to fall for it. Why should food prices raise if we use corn or grain to produce alcohol for fuel? Have you ever flown anywhere in a plane and had a window seat? Did you look at all the available land that has nothing on it? We could raise enough crops to feed the world, and make all the fuel we want. It's politics and greed that stops this. Alcohol is a cleaner burning fuel, and crops are a never-ending supply. Like trees, we can grow more and more. It is endless how much we can grow if we can kill the greed - you can thank Rockefeller for the start of this downfall- but if it hadn't of been him, it would have been some other greedy grabber.
Why don't we get together, like the Boston tea party and stop this nonsense and produce the crops necessary to do the job right, and break the hold the oil magnets have on us?

Do some research on corn and you way see this in a different light. Corn need a great deal of energy, chemical and water and is grown in too many places where water does not come naturally. I've quoted a small part of the following:

It

"But it is important to distinguish corn the crop from corn the system. As a crop, corn is highly productive, flexible and successful. It has been a pillar of American agriculture for decades, and there is no doubt that it will be a crucial part of American agriculture in the future. However, many are beginning to question corn as a system: how it dominates American agriculture compared with other farming systems; how in America it is used primarily for ethanol, animal feed and high-fructose corn syrup; how it consumes natural resources; and how it receives preferential treatment from our government."

"In the United States, corn uses more land than any other crop, spanning some 97 million acres — an area roughly the size of California. U.S. corn also consumes a large amount of our freshwater resources, including an estimated 5.6 cubic miles per year of irrigation water withdrawn from America’s rivers and aquifers. And fertilizer use for corn is massive: over 5.6 million tons of nitrogen is applied to corn each year through chemical fertilizers, along with nearly a million tons of nitrogen from manure. Much of this fertilizer, along with large amounts of soil, washes into the nation’s lakes, rivers and coastal oceans, polluting waters and damaging ecosystems along the way. The dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico is the largest, and most iconic, example of this."

Corn is king -- and therefore a growing problem - Los Angeles Times

My feeling is food for fuel is not a good idea.

Loren

 

[houstonscott]

I think we have been duped, and we are stupid enough to fall for it. Why should food prices raise if we use corn or grain to produce alcohol for fuel? Have you ever flown anywhere in a plane and had a window seat? Did you look at all the available land that has nothing on it? We could raise enough crops to feed the world, and make all the fuel we want. It's politics and greed that stops this. Alcohol is a cleaner burning fuel, and crops are a never-ending supply. Like trees, we can grow more and more. It is endless how much we can grow if we can kill the greed - you can thank Rockefeller for the start of this downfall- but if it hadn't of been him, it would have been some other greedy grabber. Why don't we get together, like the Boston tea party and stop this nonsense and produce the crops necessary to do the job right, and break the hold the oil magnets have on us?

Turns out oil is a renewable fuel, the processes that create oil are still in progress and have not stopped. The oil magnets are the USA and it's citizens. The only greedy grabbers are the government, they are the largest profiteers on those gallons of gas. Don't burn food. HS

 

[k0ua]

It appears that except for a few uninformed souls the left and right are coming together here on this food for fuel concept. And believe it or not, as a right wing conservative I find myself agreeing with a left winger that we should develop cleaner modern nuclear technology? OMG... "dogs and cats living together"

 

[Loren49]

Turns out oil is a renewable fuel, the processes that create oil are still in progress and have not stopped. The oil magnets are the USA and it's citizens. The only greedy grabbers are the government, they are the largest profiteerson those gallons of gas. Don't burn food. HS

Renewable???
Fossil fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fossil fuels are fuels formed by natural processes such as anaerobic decomposition of buried dead organisms. The age of the organisms and their resulting fossil fuels is typically millions of years, and sometimes exceeds 650 million years.[4]

Renewable energy | Define Renewable energy at Dictionary.com
renewable energy
noun
any naturally occurring, theoretically inexhaustible source of energy, as biomass, solar, wind, tidal, wave, and hydroelectric power, that is not derived from fossil or nuclear fuel.

You shouldn't create your own definitions??

"largest profiteers"?? Did you read post that tells where the gas taxes are spent...infrastructure and other fuel related hidden costs. Not what I would call taking profits. It seems that some of the hidden costs of travel by vehicles should be paid by those who use it. Of course we could all share equally but some would give that a label.

Loren

At least we agree on the burning of food.

If you'd quit throwing out these nasty and often unjustified jabs at government the thread might survive. It was not necessary.

Loren

 

[NorTracNY]

All this talk about which fuel is the best, which source of energy is the best.... I just reminds me of politicians talking about spending money on this project or that. I hear about cutting taxes, but never about cutting spending.

I believe the real answer lies in doing more with less....

 

[k0ua]

Renewable???
Fossil fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fossil fuels are fuels formed by natural processes such as anaerobic decomposition of buried dead organisms. The age of the organisms and their resulting fossil fuels is typically millions of years, and sometimes exceeds 650 million years.[4]

Renewable energy | Define Renewable energy at Dictionary.com
renewable energy
noun
any naturally occurring, theoretically inexhaustible source of energy, as biomass, solar, wind, tidal, wave, and hydroelectric power, that is not derived from fossil or nuclear fuel.

You shouldn't create your own definitions??

"largest profiteers"?? Did you read post that tells where the gas taxes are spent...infrastructure and other fuel related hidden costs. Not what I would call taking profits. It seems that some of the hidden costs of travel by vehicles should be paid by those who use it. Of course we could all share equally but some would give that a label.

Loren

At least we agree on the burning of food.

If you'd quit throwing out these nasty and often unjustified jabs at government the thread might survive. It was not necessary.

Loren

Well....... his comment cannot be completely dismissed, just yet. It is not "totally settled science"
Try to keep an open mind..

Abiogenic petroleum origin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abiotic Oil a Theory Worth Exploring - US News

 

[Loren49]

Well....... his comment cannot be completely dismissed, just yet. It is not "totally settled science"
Try to keep an open mind..

Abiotic Oil a Theory Worth Exploring - US News

Abiotic oil - RationalWiki
The abiotic oil hypothesis is an attempt to explain the source and formation of petroleum. As the name suggests, the hypothesis proposes that oil originates from non-biological origins.
The hypothesis is mostly Soviet, mostly archaic, and mostly debunked. In the Anglophone world, abiotic oil proponents tend to cite the work of the late astrophysicist Thomas Gold.

Results of application

No oil company has ever successfully found a well using the theory and it is generally considered pseudoscience on the order of global warming denialism.[2] It originated in the Soviet Union, its major scientific supporters worked in Russia, and it has never gained a following anywhere outside the Soviet Union. Having largely passed with the USSR, it occasionally makes a comeback among less intellectual conservative elements,[3] where it is used as an excuse to continue ignoring the energy crisis of the future.[4] Russian creationists also favour it.
The Swedes, in fact, drilled in Siljan at Gold's behest and only came up with 80 barrels of oily sludge over a six year period, which easily may have been residue from oil lubricant used in the drilling machinery. Abiotic oil proponents, however, continue to cherry-pick minor increases in production at certain oil wells and declare it as "proof" of abiotic oil.[5]

Abiogenic petroleum origin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you read this you'll find little evidence that this 16th century hypothesis has much scientific support.

Endless Oil? - Forbes
“If you buy the theory, it says you will never run out of oil; there is an infinite supply, and don’t worry about anything,” says Katz. “That is not the way it seems to be working.”

American geologists might be convinced if the abiotic theorists can find big new oil fields using their methods. Kutcherov has developed a methodology for searching for deep migration channels where abiotic oil might rise to the surface. If he can raise money from investors, he hopes to begin searching for abiotic oil deposits in east Texas.

...Nothing significant has been found yet!

I agree on an open mind....is this science or a distraction?

Loren

 

[Redneck in training]

There are people that still believe that Earth was created 5000 or so years ago, is flat, it is a center of universe and the sun revolves around it. Oh I forgot they also believe that wrestling is real.
Those who believe that we have unlimited supply of oil are just kidding themselves. They need to explain one question. Why it is that oil companies have hard time to find new oil and are getting it places that are difficult and expensive to develop. I do a lot of jobs for Oil and Gas and have never heard of unlimited oil or gas supply. But I heard a lot of stories how expensive it is to find new oil and gas and exploit new finds.

 

[3930dave]

OMG... "dogs and cats living together"

That line echoes in my mind as delivered by Steve Martin (or maybe Robin Williams in his heyday...).... always makes me laugh....

Yeah.... getting in between pragmatic Rocks and Hard Places, on things like large scale energy sources..... the Polly Tics tend to fall to the wayside pretty quick.....

Rgds, D.

 

[k0ua]

That line echoes in my mind as delivered by Steve Martin (or maybe Robin Williams in his heyday...).... always makes me laugh....

Yeah.... getting in between pragmatic Rocks and Hard Places, on things like large scale energy sources..... the Polly Tics tend to fall to the wayside pretty quick.....

Rgds, D.

Actually I believe it was Dan Aykroyd, in Ghostbusters


Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
Mayor: All right, all right! I get the point!