What. What? How did I miss this?
Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here
- Thread starter Scooby074
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What. What? How did I miss this?
DeereMann
Platinum Member
Well, it's a semi-hijack thread post by me, but they are putting in the full size Frontier, not compact. There are a couple threads on it, & I so-happen to be employed by one of the partners. this was publicly announced, but don't get excited if you are looking at compacts only or used only.
houstonscott
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houstonscott
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tractchores
Veteran Member
I have the US version of the land cruiser. It's a great vehicle and pretty durable, also still servicable with basic tools. I'm in the extreme minority who will actually use it for what it's intended for (off road & towing). I'd kill to have gotten the diesel version of it! More reliable, good towing capacity and non of the stupidity around ethanol.... Toyota only sold 1600 last year and at some point we're not going to be able to get it in any kind of form in the US
Awright... so I'm bending Compact a bit..... work with me here !
BBC - Autos - Meet the US Army?s hybrid hellion
Rgds, D.
BBC - Autos - Meet the US Army?s hybrid hellion
Rgds, D.
buickanddeere
Super Member
I doubt there are any automotive executives laying awake at night worried that you won't purchase one of their new fully optioned trucks?
The military seems to readily understand the efficiency of a turbo-diesel. Using it to drive electric motors is a really simple but elegant solution. Today, the control electronics to do this are relatively trivial.
(P.S. - there is also an Amorak link on that bbc page).
Rgds, D.
A fuel-efficient, lightweight hybrid vehicle that could keep soldiers safe? It might sound like mission impossible, but such a machine is already roaming the earth albeit on a tight leash.
A rugged new US Army research prototype Ultra Light Vehicle (ULV) has recently entered an advanced blast-testing phase in Michigan, with further tests scheduled for mid-December in Nevada.
TARDEC ULV prototype
TARDEC ULV prototype (US Army)
Developed by the Army's Tank Automotive Research, Development and Engineering Center (TARDEC), this all-wheel-drive beast is unusual for reasons that go well beyond its hybrid powertrain. It was designed in conjunction with non-traditional contractors, such as the motorsport-steeped Roush Enterprises. Moreover, it's a fuel-efficient hybrid vehicle, its rear-mounted lithium-iron phosphate battery charged by a 175-horsepower Subaru turbodiesel boxer engine. And although it is smaller and lighter than other similar Army vehicles, such as the long-serving Humvee, it still offers vanguard blast-mitigation and survivability features.
"We wanted to kick up the survivability in a smaller, more agile vehicle", said Mike Karaki, the ULV project manager. "We found that smaller vehicles are better suited to handle tough terrain like that found in Afghanistan."
Predictable, reliable performance was of paramount importance in development. "It's a very easy vehicle to drive", he adds. "It's very quiet, there's plenty of power and it maneuvers easily. It drives like a large SUV."
Though Karaki emphasises that the prototype is not intended as a replacement for the venerable Humvee, the US Department of Defense has recently awarded research and development grants to contractors with that explicit purpose in mind. The ULV project, the Army has stated, is scheduled to conclude at the end of fiscal-year 2014.
Meantime, here are some slightly staggering numbers associated with the ULV:
Payload capacity of 4,500lbs
Fuel economy of 14.7 payload-tonne-miles per gallon, making it a veritable gas-sipper compared to similar vehicles, which achieve about 50% lower mileage.
Weighs about 14,000lbs, but thanks to advanced technologies such as lighter-weight ceramic and composite armour, the ULV possesses the blast-deflection capabilities of a 35,000lb to 45,000lb vehicle. "It's not as light as a dune buggy, but for the threats it's designed to take on, it's lightweight", Karaki says. "On average, the advanced-composite materials are 30% to 60% lighter than steel counterparts."
A "clean" underbody (largely courtesy of the hybrid power train), which disperses blast energy that traditional components such as a driveshaft, frame rails and transfer case help retain. "A blast slides off because nothing hinders it," Karaki notes. "And by removing those traditional components, they can't become secondary projectiles."
A "crushable" floating-floor system (facilitated by the clean-underbody design), which absorbs blast energy.
A driving range of about 350 miles, depending on speed, payload and terrain. If the vehicle runs out of fuel, it can drive up to 21 miles farther on a fully charged battery. If fuel runs out during, say, a silent-watch surveillance mission, the ULV can idle for about 7.5 hours on a fully charged battery.
Two electric drive motors, one front-mounted and one rear-mounted. Either motor can power the vehicle alone.
Lightweight components that range from the suspension and wheels to carbon-ceramic brakes and tires (the latter, custom-made by off-road racing supplier Mickey Thompson Performance Tires, are 15% to 25% lighter than traditional models).
Seven cab exits, including clamshell front and rear doors, compared to four or five on comparable vehicles.
Alas, disappointment awaits those who hope to someday grab a ULV on the surplus market: the three ULV prototypes built by TARDEC are only concept vehicles.
"You'll never see one of these in battle or on a production line," says Karaki, noting that on a hypothetical production run of 15,000 vehicles, the ULVs would price out at about $260,000 apiece. "Our intent is to test these vehicles, then use the resulting data to compile the best features into a somewhat similar vehicle you might see five or 10 years down the road."
(P.S. - there is also an Amorak link on that bbc page).
Rgds, D.
A fuel-efficient, lightweight hybrid vehicle that could keep soldiers safe? It might sound like mission impossible, but such a machine is already roaming the earth albeit on a tight leash.
A rugged new US Army research prototype Ultra Light Vehicle (ULV) has recently entered an advanced blast-testing phase in Michigan, with further tests scheduled for mid-December in Nevada.
TARDEC ULV prototype
TARDEC ULV prototype (US Army)
Developed by the Army's Tank Automotive Research, Development and Engineering Center (TARDEC), this all-wheel-drive beast is unusual for reasons that go well beyond its hybrid powertrain. It was designed in conjunction with non-traditional contractors, such as the motorsport-steeped Roush Enterprises. Moreover, it's a fuel-efficient hybrid vehicle, its rear-mounted lithium-iron phosphate battery charged by a 175-horsepower Subaru turbodiesel boxer engine. And although it is smaller and lighter than other similar Army vehicles, such as the long-serving Humvee, it still offers vanguard blast-mitigation and survivability features.
"We wanted to kick up the survivability in a smaller, more agile vehicle", said Mike Karaki, the ULV project manager. "We found that smaller vehicles are better suited to handle tough terrain like that found in Afghanistan."
Predictable, reliable performance was of paramount importance in development. "It's a very easy vehicle to drive", he adds. "It's very quiet, there's plenty of power and it maneuvers easily. It drives like a large SUV."
Though Karaki emphasises that the prototype is not intended as a replacement for the venerable Humvee, the US Department of Defense has recently awarded research and development grants to contractors with that explicit purpose in mind. The ULV project, the Army has stated, is scheduled to conclude at the end of fiscal-year 2014.
Meantime, here are some slightly staggering numbers associated with the ULV:
Payload capacity of 4,500lbs
Fuel economy of 14.7 payload-tonne-miles per gallon, making it a veritable gas-sipper compared to similar vehicles, which achieve about 50% lower mileage.
Weighs about 14,000lbs, but thanks to advanced technologies such as lighter-weight ceramic and composite armour, the ULV possesses the blast-deflection capabilities of a 35,000lb to 45,000lb vehicle. "It's not as light as a dune buggy, but for the threats it's designed to take on, it's lightweight", Karaki says. "On average, the advanced-composite materials are 30% to 60% lighter than steel counterparts."
A "clean" underbody (largely courtesy of the hybrid power train), which disperses blast energy that traditional components such as a driveshaft, frame rails and transfer case help retain. "A blast slides off because nothing hinders it," Karaki notes. "And by removing those traditional components, they can't become secondary projectiles."
A "crushable" floating-floor system (facilitated by the clean-underbody design), which absorbs blast energy.
A driving range of about 350 miles, depending on speed, payload and terrain. If the vehicle runs out of fuel, it can drive up to 21 miles farther on a fully charged battery. If fuel runs out during, say, a silent-watch surveillance mission, the ULV can idle for about 7.5 hours on a fully charged battery.
Two electric drive motors, one front-mounted and one rear-mounted. Either motor can power the vehicle alone.
Lightweight components that range from the suspension and wheels to carbon-ceramic brakes and tires (the latter, custom-made by off-road racing supplier Mickey Thompson Performance Tires, are 15% to 25% lighter than traditional models).
Seven cab exits, including clamshell front and rear doors, compared to four or five on comparable vehicles.
Alas, disappointment awaits those who hope to someday grab a ULV on the surplus market: the three ULV prototypes built by TARDEC are only concept vehicles.
"You'll never see one of these in battle or on a production line," says Karaki, noting that on a hypothetical production run of 15,000 vehicles, the ULVs would price out at about $260,000 apiece. "Our intent is to test these vehicles, then use the resulting data to compile the best features into a somewhat similar vehicle you might see five or 10 years down the road."
Since the "environmental" protectionism isn't likely to abate any time soon, the realistic options we came up with so far are:
1) Move to another country.
2) Import something old.
3) Build it yourself.
4) Wait for a total economic crash to modify the car company's behaviour.
Depending on your abilities, resources, and World View, take your pick.....
Rgds, D.
Last edited:
buickanddeere
Super Member
Our tax dollars at work. Another over priced military vehicle. Third world armies seen to do just fine with a Toyota pickup costing what at most maybe $30,000 new?
Coincidentally, I was having a chat with somebody about a week ago, who has deep connections into the auto industry. We were talking about this exact platform, diesel-electric hybrid.
It's viewed as a problem, because it is a pretty disruptive technology. What do you do with all the transmission, drivetrain, and brake companies that you put out of business ?
I come from a different background, and am conditioned for a high level of disruption, so don't see what the big deal is..... just get on with it...... but enough grumbling.....
We won't see this in mass production for some time, but it's not really due to any technical reasons. Diesel-electric is a great platform, capable and efficient. Locomotives aren't built this way by accident.
As a design study, that Hellion is a success. Very efficient, for a hardened vehicle. Regardless of what one's views on the environment are, more efficient use of fuel is a strategic military advantage. I just wish our gubmints kept that in mind, in terms of what us peasants can access.
A Hilux is a tough vehicle, as civilian products go.... but put one RPG into it, and you take the truck and it's 10 rebels out pretty conclusively. First world countries tend to assign more value to their soldiers, both in $ and social terms so the trucks scale in price accordingly.
If I had to go off to battle, I know I'd much sooner be in the back of a purpose built vehicle like the Hellion, than bouncing around in the back of an open pickup like a sack of potatoes. Operationally, as good as a Hilux is, something like the Hellion will be more effective.
So, no, I don't have a problem with my tax dollars going into proper equipment for troops. Govt money gets wasted every day on worse expenditures.
In today's dollars, $260k doesn't seem high. Many guys on TBN probably drive Class A RVs worth that much, and if you go out to the oil-patch, what are selling well are Class A's that are $500k+.
Technically, it is telling that the choice of IC powerplant on this advanced proof of concept is a turbo-diesel. The govt knows what the right answer is, when the results really matter.
Rgds, D.
It's viewed as a problem, because it is a pretty disruptive technology. What do you do with all the transmission, drivetrain, and brake companies that you put out of business ?
I come from a different background, and am conditioned for a high level of disruption, so don't see what the big deal is..... just get on with it...... but enough grumbling.....
We won't see this in mass production for some time, but it's not really due to any technical reasons. Diesel-electric is a great platform, capable and efficient. Locomotives aren't built this way by accident.
As a design study, that Hellion is a success. Very efficient, for a hardened vehicle. Regardless of what one's views on the environment are, more efficient use of fuel is a strategic military advantage. I just wish our gubmints kept that in mind, in terms of what us peasants can access.
A Hilux is a tough vehicle, as civilian products go.... but put one RPG into it, and you take the truck and it's 10 rebels out pretty conclusively. First world countries tend to assign more value to their soldiers, both in $ and social terms so the trucks scale in price accordingly.
If I had to go off to battle, I know I'd much sooner be in the back of a purpose built vehicle like the Hellion, than bouncing around in the back of an open pickup like a sack of potatoes. Operationally, as good as a Hilux is, something like the Hellion will be more effective.
So, no, I don't have a problem with my tax dollars going into proper equipment for troops. Govt money gets wasted every day on worse expenditures.
In today's dollars, $260k doesn't seem high. Many guys on TBN probably drive Class A RVs worth that much, and if you go out to the oil-patch, what are selling well are Class A's that are $500k+.
Technically, it is telling that the choice of IC powerplant on this advanced proof of concept is a turbo-diesel. The govt knows what the right answer is, when the results really matter.
Rgds, D.
RalphVa
Super Member
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I've often liked that Chrysler will take design chances that the other 2 won't. Ex. the Prowler.
On the bbc link I posted recently, there is a link on that page to a VW Amorak "test" drive in Africa..... 53C ambient Temp ! I'd buy that thing in a heartbeat.... still hoping it makes it to Canada, with a stick option.
Rgds, D.
OP
Scooby074
Super Member
You're not the only one that wants it here:thumbsup: Better come with the stick too.
buickanddeere
Super Member
The military could probably make do with an ordinary 1 ton crew cab pickup with 24V mil spec electrical system and a P-pump equipped Cummins ISB engine. Put a layer of Kevlar in the tailgate and around all the doors, walls, floor, hood, fenders, grill and roof. Use polycarbonate windows. Open the diffs with Torrsen worm gear limited slips. Could probably purchase three of those for the cost of one Hummer.
CanuckPT
Gold Member
I've never owned a VW but this could seriously be my first it if ever makes it's way to the USA!! I'm salivating!
Volkswagen Amarok - YouTube
Amarok < Models < Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles
Volkswagen Amarok - YouTube
Amarok < Models < Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles
With apologies to Scooby..... I just had to share.....
BBC - Autos - One diesel sports car to rule them all
The beginning of the article:
Back in 2006, boutique British carmaker Trident announced a plan to build a 200mph diesel-powered supercar. It was an audacious promise, to be sure, but the company followed through, building a running prototype in 2008 right around the time Audi unwrapped a version of its R8 supercar with a clattering 5.9-litre diesel V12 engine producing 500 horsepower and 738 pound-feet of torque. Six years later, the one-off Audi is a museum piece, but the Trident Iceni is headed for the production line and global availability.
Hey, at least it's compact, and it has a truck motor !
Rgds, D.
BBC - Autos - One diesel sports car to rule them all
The beginning of the article:
Back in 2006, boutique British carmaker Trident announced a plan to build a 200mph diesel-powered supercar. It was an audacious promise, to be sure, but the company followed through, building a running prototype in 2008 right around the time Audi unwrapped a version of its R8 supercar with a clattering 5.9-litre diesel V12 engine producing 500 horsepower and 738 pound-feet of torque. Six years later, the one-off Audi is a museum piece, but the Trident Iceni is headed for the production line and global availability.
Hey, at least it's compact, and it has a truck motor !
Rgds, D.
stephan
Silver Member
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Well guys finally we have a bit of green coming from you folks in the States. Usually, it goes the other way given what you play for your tractors, implements and the variety of both.
I own a VW Amaork Ultimate (fully loaded) and it is the ****z. Unladen I do get about 30mpg but on average, with all the towing I do I get about 24mpg. You can see my usage here Amarok (VW Amarok) | Fuelly
Great vehicle and I've owned a few in the "Dual cab ute" range. Here is another tempter Ultimate in the Yawal dirt - YouTube of my ute in the dirt.
Now just so you folks know this vehicle has a 2l 4 cylinder turbo diesel motor, small by anyone's standards, the normal size here is still 4 cylinder but 3.0l. It does put out 120kw and 400nm (sorry didn't convert to old money) and I find it ample for what I need. It's legal for me to tow 2.8T with it.
If you really want to see them look here AusAmarok - Volkswagen Amarok Forum of Australia & New Zealand
I own a VW Amaork Ultimate (fully loaded) and it is the ****z. Unladen I do get about 30mpg but on average, with all the towing I do I get about 24mpg. You can see my usage here Amarok (VW Amarok) | Fuelly
Great vehicle and I've owned a few in the "Dual cab ute" range. Here is another tempter Ultimate in the Yawal dirt - YouTube of my ute in the dirt.
Now just so you folks know this vehicle has a 2l 4 cylinder turbo diesel motor, small by anyone's standards, the normal size here is still 4 cylinder but 3.0l. It does put out 120kw and 400nm (sorry didn't convert to old money) and I find it ample for what I need. It's legal for me to tow 2.8T with it.
If you really want to see them look here AusAmarok - Volkswagen Amarok Forum of Australia & New Zealand
OP
Scooby074
Super Member
With apologies to Scooby..... I just had to share.....
BBC - Autos - One diesel sports car to rule them all
The beginning of the article:
Back in 2006, boutique British carmaker Trident announced a plan to build a 200mph diesel-powered supercar. It was an audacious promise, to be sure, but the company followed through, building a running prototype in 2008 right around the time Audi unwrapped a version of its R8 supercar with a clattering 5.9-litre diesel V12 engine producing 500 horsepower and 738 pound-feet of torque. Six years later, the one-off Audi is a museum piece, but the Trident Iceni is headed for the production line and global availability.
Hey, at least it's compact, and it has a truck motor !
Rgds, D.
You're forgiven dave... Thats a sexy car!
