charleyfarmall
Platinum Member
If I tried mowing in C range I would be bouncing off the roof. I can cut hay over 6mph easily in B range on the smooth sections of field. As others have said, C range is intended for transport.
JD4520 e-Hydro not pulling up slopes
- Thread starter belky
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- john deere 4520
mfreund
Veteran Member
On page 32 in the operation section it says that it can be set. I have seen the procedure. Need to find it now. Could have been in a forum or in Technical manual. I will look for it.
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
Furu,
I see a lot of smooth farms but it does take larger equipment than a compact to get there.
Cartod
I agree a hydro uses up a few horsepower but also most tractors have a very high weight to hp ratio so going up a steep incline is going to slow them to a crawl. A gear tractor such as your 820 will do the same in high gear (8th). The older tractors would allow you to lug the motor but the new tractors keep you from doing this to a great extent. I have to deal with steep grades often and prefer a higher hp tractor in a given size for this reason. A properly set up 4120 will pull the same draft load as a 4720 will but the 4720 will run circles around it.
I see a lot of smooth farms but it does take larger equipment than a compact to get there.
Cartod
I agree a hydro uses up a few horsepower but also most tractors have a very high weight to hp ratio so going up a steep incline is going to slow them to a crawl. A gear tractor such as your 820 will do the same in high gear (8th). The older tractors would allow you to lug the motor but the new tractors keep you from doing this to a great extent. I have to deal with steep grades often and prefer a higher hp tractor in a given size for this reason. A properly set up 4120 will pull the same draft load as a 4720 will but the 4720 will run circles around it.
Had a short run around today hauling some sand. Switched load match off and found tractor pulling better and more responsive to pedal up hills. 1800-2000 rpm and pulls well up hill in A/B. Somewhat better than pref. in C but still struggles on the slightest incline. So If pulls better up hills/ more responsive with Load Match off, how does it help with working a rotary slasher?
in what situations Being new to hydrostatic/ turbo setup, didn't realise you had to keep up high revs to get moving up hills. Just thought I'd be wearing motor constantly going at higher revs but would seem actually healthier for motor? As for motion Match, perhaps a slight difference b/w long and short but definitely no skidding on lawn on short. Due for 12 month service, will get technician to have a look.
in what situations Being new to hydrostatic/ turbo setup, didn't realise you had to keep up high revs to get moving up hills. Just thought I'd be wearing motor constantly going at higher revs but would seem actually healthier for motor? As for motion Match, perhaps a slight difference b/w long and short but definitely no skidding on lawn on short. Due for 12 month service, will get technician to have a look.
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
belky,
Your last sentence is the best thing to do, have it checked out. I haven't had to switch settings on my load match ever, would have to look in the book to do so and haven't had an issue to provoke that. I use the upgraded cruise and auto throttle most of the time and both work very well. The C range is high enough that I don't use it for tractive jobs.
Your last sentence is the best thing to do, have it checked out. I haven't had to switch settings on my load match ever, would have to look in the book to do so and haven't had an issue to provoke that. I use the upgraded cruise and auto throttle most of the time and both work very well. The C range is high enough that I don't use it for tractive jobs.
cartod
Platinum Member
nothing you have described is any different than my 3320. I'd say get used to it.
TSO
Elite Member
Have you changed your hydraulic filter lately? Might be worth a change, sometimes they get clogged up and can interfere with your system.
Thanks guys.
Tso, machine 12 months/ 120 hours old, so hopefully not needing hydraulic change. Will get annual service soon though and get technicians' advice; hopefully he has experience with 4020 CUT's.
Jenkinsph:yes, I was using auto cruise yesterday and it runs very smoothly, perhaps as there's no throttle involved so I'm not feeling the need to push pedal further and further to get up hills, it's done for me. Perhaps just preconception/ inexperience is the problem, just didn't seem right to have to push the pedal to the floor to get up a hill, and have usually backed off from doing this. So high revs and pedal near the floor are ok then? Also, do you use auto throttle when slashing or using loader, or just for travel?
Wasn't using C range for actual work, just moving across property ; just thought I'd be able to move "up" property as well. If that's normal, not a problem, just wanted to be sure. Note also that I did speak to a sales rep. at a field day, and he thought that small grades should not be a problem in C, which got me thinking. He also mentioned a simple spring involved with the hydraulic control valve that could be a problem. Again, I'll get the technician to have a look.
With load match off tractor now travelling up hills without feeling restricted and with cruise on, it's feels effortless, as long as revs are over 1800-2000.
Thanks for the advice all.
Tso, machine 12 months/ 120 hours old, so hopefully not needing hydraulic change. Will get annual service soon though and get technicians' advice; hopefully he has experience with 4020 CUT's.
Jenkinsph:yes, I was using auto cruise yesterday and it runs very smoothly, perhaps as there's no throttle involved so I'm not feeling the need to push pedal further and further to get up hills, it's done for me. Perhaps just preconception/ inexperience is the problem, just didn't seem right to have to push the pedal to the floor to get up a hill, and have usually backed off from doing this. So high revs and pedal near the floor are ok then? Also, do you use auto throttle when slashing or using loader, or just for travel?
Wasn't using C range for actual work, just moving across property ; just thought I'd be able to move "up" property as well. If that's normal, not a problem, just wanted to be sure. Note also that I did speak to a sales rep. at a field day, and he thought that small grades should not be a problem in C, which got me thinking. He also mentioned a simple spring involved with the hydraulic control valve that could be a problem. Again, I'll get the technician to have a look.
With load match off tractor now travelling up hills without feeling restricted and with cruise on, it's feels effortless, as long as revs are over 1800-2000.
Thanks for the advice all.
TSO
Elite Member
Ok... on every tractor I've had, I've changed the oil & hydro filters within the first 50-100 hrs. Never know what kind of debris you'll create on a new engine & hydraulic system while it's breaking in. Changing the hydro filter on my Massey at 50hrs actually quieted down the HST whine.
TSO
Elite Member
Not necessarily. Depends on how much fluid leaks out while changing the filter. You'll probably have to add just a little bit back to the system once you put the new filter on. Easy job.
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
belky,
I use the auto throttle for most work I do except pto implements. 10 hours today with auto throttle and a box blade laser grading a field. I would use it for fel work but my fel is on the 110tlb.
I use the auto throttle for most work I do except pto implements. 10 hours today with auto throttle and a box blade laser grading a field. I would use it for fel work but my fel is on the 110tlb.
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
belky,
With the ac on I set my throttle to 1400-1500 rpms when I start up. Auto throttle takes over from there, varies from 1400 to 2500 rpms, pulling a box blade is A range because it is a fairly heavy load for a small tractor (84" Gannon). Hard to put a number on the engine speed because the property and usage varies so much, in turn the speed varies to match it.
I live in the lower Rocky Mountains so we have all kinds of grades from flat to steep, but most of the areas I work in are flat bottom land. This is flood irrigated land which hasn't seen a tractor in many years. The flooding of this land over many years makes for hard ground so I have to rip it up first to level and or grade it. That takes the most power to accomplish and is over 2000 rpms for the most part. I follow up with the ripping by running a 6' heavy tiller, most of the time this is in Epto and 1750 rpms with ground speeds from .7 to 1.8 mph. I also used my 6' field cultivator this weekend to help loosen the ground up on a 3 acre field making multiple passes at 3 mph using the auto throttle and cruise this was in advance of watering the dry ground today and just wanting to soften it up some. All in all I think the auto throttle saves some fuel as it has reduced the amount of fuel I use.
With the ac on I set my throttle to 1400-1500 rpms when I start up. Auto throttle takes over from there, varies from 1400 to 2500 rpms, pulling a box blade is A range because it is a fairly heavy load for a small tractor (84" Gannon). Hard to put a number on the engine speed because the property and usage varies so much, in turn the speed varies to match it.
I live in the lower Rocky Mountains so we have all kinds of grades from flat to steep, but most of the areas I work in are flat bottom land. This is flood irrigated land which hasn't seen a tractor in many years. The flooding of this land over many years makes for hard ground so I have to rip it up first to level and or grade it. That takes the most power to accomplish and is over 2000 rpms for the most part. I follow up with the ripping by running a 6' heavy tiller, most of the time this is in Epto and 1750 rpms with ground speeds from .7 to 1.8 mph. I also used my 6' field cultivator this weekend to help loosen the ground up on a 3 acre field making multiple passes at 3 mph using the auto throttle and cruise this was in advance of watering the dry ground today and just wanting to soften it up some. All in all I think the auto throttle saves some fuel as it has reduced the amount of fuel I use.
Gary Fowler
Super Star Member
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YOU just diagnosed your problem, NOT RUNNING ENOUGH RPM. With HST, for most power you need to run almost full throttle and not too much pedal. The HST pedal is like a infinite gear shifter in itself, a little pressure on the pedal put it in lowest gear and the further you press the pedal the higher gear it shifts into. When you need more power, just back off the pedal and let it go to a lower ratio gear. Most new owners make the mistake in thinking that if they need more power, push the pedal harder but that is opposite of what is needed. You also need the engine RPM high to run the hydraulic pump to max capacity. An HST is ran by hydraulic pressure and volume. The engine turns a hydraulic pump that turns the transmission gearing that turns the wheels rather than engine directly turning the transmission which is why you loose some HP in the system via the extra friction encountered in the process.
I am not sure how the auto throttle works on your tractor not having experience with that option, but I assume that it tries to compensate by adding power to the engine to make the tractor go as fast as the HST pedal location is asking. If it automatically moved the pedal configuration back to optimum, that would make for really automatic transmission, but I doubt that it is doing that, just feeding more power to the engine. Someone correct me if that is incorrect.
It sounds like Gary has hit the nail on the head. I also don't think there is anything wrong with your tractor but you are not running a high enough rpm. I also have one of those tractor's, with the turbo-charged JD Powerstroke engine. It is rather loud. On my open station tractor, running at higher rpm's is a lot more comfortable with ear muffs or plugs. The high rpm engine noise aint horrible though, and I would think it we be quite bearable if you have a cab, without any hearing protection. Lower rpms is quite and more comfortable but does not get you anywhere near the maximum potential hp on your engine's power curve. Pure physics tells us that the steeper the grade, and the higher the speed, the greater the hp requirement. That is what you are seeing first-hand, even with little or no pto or drawbar load.
On my own tractor, most of the implements (disk, plow, rear blade, etc.) I use were designed for a 28 hp, Ford N, and can therefore be operated with the engine at or near idle speed on my pancake-flat farm. It is only when I get into the thicker stuff, with a appropriate-sized, 6 ft, rotary cutter, that I need the rpm's (and the earplugs). Also, with a power-reverser trans, I am not taking the 5-15% hp hit as you are with the hydro. That is not a whole lot, and for you at least, sounds like it is more than made up for by the added convenience.
There are a few reasons why I mostly like to run implements that are on the small side, and one is certainly the ability to get rid of the hearing protection (not especially comfortable). Most importantly for me, is the ability to power right through the mud holes, common on my farm in the spring. without loosing traction. This always keeps my planting from being too late. I especially like watching the wakes roll of the little 2x12 plow as I power through standing water. The only problem here is that you will need a little welding knowledge to "beef-up" them little tools.
On my own tractor, most of the implements (disk, plow, rear blade, etc.) I use were designed for a 28 hp, Ford N, and can therefore be operated with the engine at or near idle speed on my pancake-flat farm. It is only when I get into the thicker stuff, with a appropriate-sized, 6 ft, rotary cutter, that I need the rpm's (and the earplugs). Also, with a power-reverser trans, I am not taking the 5-15% hp hit as you are with the hydro. That is not a whole lot, and for you at least, sounds like it is more than made up for by the added convenience.
There are a few reasons why I mostly like to run implements that are on the small side, and one is certainly the ability to get rid of the hearing protection (not especially comfortable). Most importantly for me, is the ability to power right through the mud holes, common on my farm in the spring. without loosing traction. This always keeps my planting from being too late. I especially like watching the wakes roll of the little 2x12 plow as I power through standing water. The only problem here is that you will need a little welding knowledge to "beef-up" them little tools.
Thanks wolc123. Yes it is loud on the open station, but love the sound/lug of the motor.. Just misinformed preconception I suppose i.e that continual high rev operating would shorten motor life, so trying to " take it easy" on the motor. From what I'm learning though, these motors are designed to be operated on high revs all day long and that should be a problem regarding increased engine wear.?
wolc123, must ust say though, that needs to be at near 1500 to move along easily even on the flat, but suppose thats due to 4 i 1 440cx and large ballast: just over 1000kg (2200lb.) all up.
BTW have discovered noise cancelling bluetooth headphones,so no cord to catch on something as you get on and off tractor, and work a treat. Can even listen to the iPhone music, needing just mid volume levels, whilst mowing at 2400.
wolc123, must ust say though, that needs to be at near 1500 to move along easily even on the flat, but suppose thats due to 4 i 1 440cx and large ballast: just over 1000kg (2200lb.) all up.
BTW have discovered noise cancelling bluetooth headphones,so no cord to catch on something as you get on and off tractor, and work a treat. Can even listen to the iPhone music, needing just mid volume levels, whilst mowing at 2400.
I also like the sound of that Powerstroke engine. There is just something about that turbo wind-up/down sound that is real cool. The little Yanmars that JD has been forced into now, due to "tier-4"requirements are not quite as loud (at lower rpms anyhow) but boring sounding in comparison. Be thankfull that you got one from back when they still made fine, turbo-charged, American, diesels on their largest series of CUT.
Absolutely Wolc, love the sound of the motor lugging away. Just didnt like to think I was shortening it's life by constantly being higher up in rev range.
Also, after starting, manual states to go straight to ⅓ throttle; thought you'd wait for oil flow before doing this. Similarly what's the best revs to idle at after working motor, to best allow motor to call down, and for how long?
And lastly, my temp gauge is always in the last ⅓ before the red zone, when operating. Seem to remember reading a thread, prior to purchasing machine, that this was normal. Is yours the same?
Ah newbies eh? But getting much better info form all you on the forum than my dealer is able to provide.
Tx
Also, after starting, manual states to go straight to ⅓ throttle; thought you'd wait for oil flow before doing this. Similarly what's the best revs to idle at after working motor, to best allow motor to call down, and for how long?
And lastly, my temp gauge is always in the last ⅓ before the red zone, when operating. Seem to remember reading a thread, prior to purchasing machine, that this was normal. Is yours the same?
Ah newbies eh? But getting much better info form all you on the forum than my dealer is able to provide.
Tx
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