Got an interesting letter from the RCMP today

[lilranch2001]

The whole thing in my mind boils down to proof
The very poor letter that has been posted several times, and still has not been posted in any quality way does not condemn Everlast, and at the worst it would condemn Everlast Canada, to some specific level

scoobydoo and rjmack2 has been over the top condemning Mark, Everlast, Everlast's website, Shieldarc, and anyone else who has decided that they do not agree with their tactics.

it behooves THEM to make their case, and if Everlast Canada screwed up, then Everlast should make it right in the market place, and if they don't then the wronged party's should have the courts on their side.
I would think the BBB would have been already involved.

Making what seems to be some very poor and wild accusations on a web site like this seems pretty low life to me

 

[Buckgnarly]

The whole thing in my mind boils down to proof
The very poor letter that has been posted several times, and still has not been posted in any quality way does not condemn Everlast, and at the worst it would condemn Everlast Canada, to some specific level

scoobydoo and rjmack2 has been over the top condemning Mark, Everlast, Everlast's website, Shieldarc, and anyone else who has decided that they do not agree with their tactics. Everlast CA is the same as Everlast anywhere in my mind....biased of course by living in a NON third world country!

it behooves THEM to make their case, and if Everlast Canada screwed up, then Everlast should make it right in the market place, and if they don't then the wronged party's should have the courts on their side.
I would think the BBB would have been already involved.

Making what seems to be some very poor and wild accusations on a web site like this seems pretty low life to me

BBB is a joke, but you are absolutely correct in the OP providing a good copy of the letter...PDFs are not hard to scan today.

If the product is not approved in CA, or the EU for that matter, it is not good for me....if they are fraudulent in codes, then it is even worse.

I do not know Mark, Shieldarc, or the OP personally, to me they are all just faceless entities on the internet.....which makes it all the more important to keep an open mind and opinion on the discussion....:thumbsup:

 

[lilranch2001]

Well....
If the BBB is a joke, then what is the RCMP?
They send a letter (so far unreadable to me, and possibly very easily forged) and the extent of from what I understand their power is to advise owners to throw them away?
That does not sound like a lot of power to me................

 

[Scooby074]

You , Scooby074 , Still Did Not answer my Question about your Statement , " Miller only recently changed the labels on machines with less than 95% USA made content to comply with federal labeling rules. Im not real happy about it, but I'd sooner see Assembled in USA of US and Foreign components then Assembled in china with chinese components. " . Foreign - What Exactly does that Mean ? Or more Importantly " Were " is " Foreign " ?

Just Again , Wondering Why you only choose to answer certain statements and Also wondering Why the OP even bothered bringing this Here . I am Thinking , He is trying to Blackmail Everlast by running a smear campaign . They offered a deal , he refused , wants full refund . Fine . Go to court and deal with the results . Seems there are more Happy Customers of Everlast than there are non-happy , thus if I was in the market for any products of that nature , I would look at the Everlast Brand . :thumbsup: :2cents:


Fred H.

If you cant use Google to look up what the word foreign means, I can't help you.

This thread has nothing to do with happy or unhappy customers no matter how you try to spin it. It has to do with an "international" company selling potentially dangerous products in MY country and acting like its no big deal.

I have the same opinion of all the other chinese crap coming into my country with fraudulent labels. In the last 5-10 years there has been an explosion of fraudulently certified items being sold in Canada, this has resulted in many fires and other incidents. Plus many recalls when the item is caught. Counterfeit labeling is such a big deal that CSA has a group dedicated to sniffing out fraudulent items, they are likely the ones who caught everlast.

Everything in this country has to have a valid Canadian certification, if it isn't certified there is the possibility that your insurance will not pay out in the event of an incident. I can't make it any clearer than that. And if you're a business, you can be fined if in possession of un-certified equipment.

The Authority, someone like Ontario Hydro (AKA Hydro One, AKA Esafe) in this case, can come and do an onsite inspection to CSA standards of each unit and provide the appropriate certification, but each inspection would cost more than these cheap welders sell for

 

[Buckgnarly]

Well....
If the BBB is a joke, then what is the RCMP?
They send a letter (so far unreadable to me, and possibly very easily forged) and the extent of from what I understand their power is to advise owners to throw them away?
That does not sound like a lot of power to me................

LEO and non profit group are two totally different beasts. I would not fear a letter from the BBB, but would from the RCMP.....even if they could not enforce a letter to throw away. At the very least, LEO would get my attention VERY quick, and to ignore or belittle their concern would be foolish.

But I do agree in that the OP needs to provide a legible copy and possibly more evidence, but I surely would not discredit the possibility of a serious safety issue from a less than reliable COO!

I still stand by my lead paint and pet treat analogy to which no one has answered. I have no doubt US companies are out for profit, but I have less doubt in a China company and it's affiliates!

 

[dragoneggs]

BBB is a joke, but you are absolutely correct in the OP providing a good copy of the letter...PDFs are not hard to scan today.

If the product is not approved in CA, or the EU for that matter, it is not good for me....if they are fraudulent in codes, then it is even worse.

I do not know Mark, Shieldarc, or the OP personally, to me they are all just faceless entities on the internet.....which makes it all the more important to keep an open mind and opinion on the discussion....:thumbsup:

Well I will vouch for Shield Arc. And not sure why you would say if a certain product is not approved in CA or EU it isn't good enough for you. I want to say this statement is ridiculous but let me offer this instead... my company makes product for the US Navy who has the most stringent and toughest of requirements but we don't meet CA or EU approvals for some of it. Does this mean it would not be good enough for you? In some cases it boils down to who you decide to pay for a cert in some cases.

For instance in marine... certain certifications such as ABS (American Bureau of Shipping), Lloyds, DNV, are really insurance companies who have set standards that companies pay good money to get cert'd. This assures the owner when he/she builds a ship it meets certain standards. Your brand new ship meets ABS but doesn't meet Lloyd's and you surely aren't going to buy dual cert. I realize this is a bit of a different issue but my point is just because a product doesn't meet a particular standard, it doesn't mean it cannot be trusted. Just a different perspective here to hopefully open minds.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Well I will vouch for Shield Arc. And not sure why you would say if a certain product is not approved in CA or EU it isn't good enough for you. I want to say this statement is ridiculous but let me offer this instead... my company makes product for the US Navy who has the most stringent and toughest of requirements but we don't meet CA or EU approvals for some of it. Does this mean it would not be good enough for you? In some cases it boils down to who you decide to pay for a cert in some cases.

For instance in marine... certain certifications such as ABS (American Bureau of Shipping), Lloyds, DNV, are really insurance companies who have set standards that companies pay good money to get cert'd. This assures the owner when he/she builds a ship it meets certain standards. Your brand new ship meets ABS but doesn't meet Lloyd's and you surely aren't going to buy dual cert. I realize this is a bit of a different issue but my point is just because a product doesn't meet a particular standard, it doesn't mean it cannot be trusted. Just a different perspective here to hopefully open minds.

I probably should have said if it does not meet a CA or EU standard,or if it were fraudulently represented to meet it, it would make me very wary, especially with something as simple as a welder that may be used DIY, not an ocean going vessel that may transport millions in good or ensure the safety of a nation......good point though!:thumbsup:


And again, I have never met nor know anyone on here to question their credentials, but I know what I have welded and I take my friends and customers lives very seriously and choose my equipment even more seriously.

 

[lilranch2001]

LEO and non profit group are two totally different beasts. I would not fear a letter from the BBB, but would from the RCMP.....even if they could not enforce a letter to throw away. At the very least, LEO would get my attention VERY quick, and to ignore or belittle their concern would be foolish.

But I do agree in that the OP needs to provide a legible copy and possibly more evidence, but I surely would not discredit the possibility of a serious safety issue from a less than reliable COO!

I still stand by my lead paint and pet treat analogy to which no one has answered. I have no doubt US companies are out for profit, but I have less doubt in a China company and it's affiliates!

OK so lets say you are correct.
LEOs have much "fear factor". IF this letter is correct, would you think that the head of Everlast Canada would be fearing arrest and prison time if he or she knew for sure that fraud had been committed?
Probably would have either done all they could to not let the situation get to this point?
Or would have skipped the country?
Don't you think the consumer portion of the Canada Gov would have already acted in the wronged party's behalf?
Has any of this happened?
Not that has been presented on this forums so far.

The whole thread seems to me to be muchadeaboutnothing!
Show me the facts, the WELDERFACTS!

Don't forget, this is a 2 year old issue, either the Canadian Gov is slowwwwwww or lax or it really isn't an issue

 

[Arc weld]

If you have an opinion that everything out of China is crap to begin with, it's not going to make a hill of beans what anyone else says. You might as well jump off the nearest bridge if you really don't want to use any products coming from China. If it's a new bridge might have Chinese steel. Sorry, find another bridge. Miller and Lincoln have MIG guns and other components made in Mexico. Are they any better than Chinese products? BBB is mostly just a complaint system. They keep track of complaints but don't have authority to do anything about them. Who knows how experienced this RCMP officer is? If it's really a big problem, how come he isn't going and confiscating the affected machines? Maybe him saying to destroy the machines is just a sign of his inexperience? How come there isn't a bulletin on the news about people being electrocuted or burning their houses down from using an Everlast welder?

WE NEED TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS before we can pass judgement. Saying it's because they come from China is lame. If that were the case, drilling rigs made in the US might as well come from China. A big drilling outfit here in Alberta thought they were saving $1,000,000 by buying a rig built in the US. My buddy was one of the rig welders modifying it to meet Canadian conditions. Total cost to refurbish it for the cold climate far exceeded the million bucks they thought they were saving. It ended up costing them considerably more than having one built in Alberta. Adding to the cost was they had a tight deadline to have it ready to go to work.

Why was Shield Arc brought into this thread anyway? He bought a couple inexpensive welders and was very impressed by them. He certainly didn't need them and Everlast didn't give them to him. He paid hard earned money for them. I bet dollars to donuts, he'd give them a bad rating if they deserved it and he owns some expensive top of the line welders. I've never met SA but I'd regard his opinion on welders more than just about anyone and that includes factory reps.

 

[rjmack]

Well I will vouch for Shield Arc. And not sure why you would say if a certain product is not approved in CA or EU it isn't good enough for you. I want to say this statement is ridiculous but let me offer this instead... my company makes product for the US Navy who has the most stringent and toughest of requirements but we don't meet CA or EU approvals for some of it. Does this mean it would not be good enough for you? In some cases it boils down to who you decide to pay for a cert in some cases.

For instance in marine... certain certifications such as ABS (American Bureau of Shipping), Lloyds, DNV, are really insurance companies who have set standards that companies pay good money to get cert'd. This assures the owner when he/she builds a ship it meets certain standards. Your brand new ship meets ABS but doesn't meet Lloyd's and you surely aren't going to buy dual cert. I realize this is a bit of a different issue but my point is just because a product doesn't meet a particular standard, it doesn't mean it cannot be trusted. Just a different perspective here to hopefully open minds.

I understand your position, but you are missing the point. Certification stickers were counterfeited and the machines were sold as CSA approved. To use your boat analogy, say someone sold you a boat that they had counterfeit paperwork showing it to be ABS and Lloyds certified when it was not. These machines were misrepresented by a company that will now only go good for between 10-50% of the money we paid for them, and are only using that as a credit toward buying another machine from the same company that pulled the wool over our eyes to begin with.

I will go to court, and I will try to get my money back. The fact that I have to go these lengths to try get my money back might be something you would want to consider before handing any of your money over to these characters.

edit; and btw, for all the deniers out there, once again, the RCMP can be contacted by phone at 1-800-461-9398 or email at david.sutherland@rcmp-grc.gc.ca

the letter is real, the evidence is real, the RCMP have caught Everlast with their pants down, period.