So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[houstonscott]

About half the Electric Vehicle owners I know charge their cars from their own solar panels... Some have panels they own both at home and at their office... which again they own. It's almost the latest fad for Bay Area Doctors... they take all the tax credits and incentives and build their systems plus they get a pass into the carpool lanes which is no small thing. It could be an only in California thing... Two are now only electric for the family fleet... Not a GM volt in the lot...

If it's a California thing it's already been done. Bay Area is yesterplace in a yesterstate. HS

 

[ultrarunner]

If this is true... I can only imagine how bad it is for the rest of the country...

Just saw my first electric BMW in the company parking lot... just about every new car in the employee lot is electric or hybrid... my former boss just accepted a job in Palo Alto and is getting rid of her BMW... she says her employer is providing prefered parking and no cost to the employee charging stations if she buys a hybrid or electric... so there will soon be another Prius owner that I know.

Companies are hiring and paying sign on bonuses... vacancy rates between 2 and 3% for rentals and homes are selling over asking...

It's crazy I will admit...

A rock solid 50% price selling price increase in just 2 years in my city and double digit everywhere else...

One is hard pressed to find housing and this is all in an area a couple of years ago they were saying the man out turn out the lights.

The money is certainly flowing again... don't know how long or when it will stop.

Oakland, Calif. - 10 hottest housing markets for 2014 - CNNMoney

The Price of Living in Oakland Skyrocketed 76% - The Bold Italic - San Francisco

It could just be some had California down for the count and were mistaken?

Remember unleaded fuel and emission controls started here and are now 50 state wide...

 

[houstonscott]

If this is true... I can only imagine how bad it is for the rest of the country... Just saw my first electric BMW in the company parking lot... just about every new car in the employee lot is electric or hybrid... my former boss just accepted a job in Palo Alto and is getting rid of her BMW... she says her employer is providing prefered parking and no cost to the employee charging stations if she buys a hybrid or electric... so there will soon be another Prius owner that I know. Companies are hiring and paying sign on bonuses... vacancy rates between 2 and 3% for rentals and homes are selling over asking... It's crazy I will admit... A rock solid 50% price selling price increase in just 2 years in my city and double digit everywhere else... One is hard pressed to find housing and this is all in an area a couple of years ago they were saying the man out turn out the lights. The money is certainly flowing again... don't know how long or when it will stop. Oakland, Calif. - 10 hottest housing markets for 2014 - CNNMoney The Price of Living in Oakland Skyrocketed 76% - The Bold Italic - San Francisco It could just be some had California down for the count and were mistaken? Remember unleaded fuel and emission controls started here and are now 50 state wide...

The Bay Area is now a dump. Oakland is an arm pit city. Bay Area's ship sailed in 1990's, you may not understand that though. Not sure you can see the forest for the trees. Yeah, I remember California greenies requiring MTBE's in their fuel and polluting the States ground water forever, too. HS

 

[ultrarunner]

Could be...

I'm 4th generation Oakland and a Tractor owner... can't be all bad?

My only comment and I will leave it at that is don't think what happens in California only affects Californians...

History has shown what happens in California doesn't stay in California...

Even when it comes to taxes... California sends far more dollars to Washington than the other way around.

Green may have started here... yet just the other day Texas Governor Rick Perry said he is considering moving to California and recently he was taking a Tesla all Electric for a test drive...

Could Texas Gov. Rick Perry be mulling move to ... California? | Dallas Morning News

Just remember without California... Californians and their electric cars may soon be coming to a State near you...

 

[DarkBlack]

If you live in eyesight to the power plant smoke stack that are charging your battery car from, can you still call it zero emissions with a clear conscience?

If you do the calculation even when you charge the battery from the coal fired plant you pollute less than when using combustion engine.

Wrong. I've Done the calculations. Here you go...

Without even getting into the nasties of coal. Lets start by looking at CO2 which greenies love to pedestal:

1) Gas economy car getting 40 MPG. After 40 miles: 1 gallon gas burned =19.64lb CO2

2) Nissan Leaf EPA tested 34 Kwh electicity / 100 miles. Convert to 40 miles
0.4 * 34 Kwh = 13.6 Kwh used in 40 miles

Per the EPA site:
"The average emission rates in the United States from coal-fired generation are: 2,249 lbs/MWh of carbon dioxide,
13 lbs/MWh of sulfur dioxide, and 6 lbs/MWh of nitrogen oxides"

Convert to Mwh to Kwh: 2,249 lbs/MWh / 1000 = 2.249 lb CO2 per Kwh
2.249 lb Coal * 13.6 Kwh needed to go 40 miles = 30.59 lb CO2

That's 30.59 lb CO2 to go the same 40 miles the gas car does with 19.64 lb CO2
The electric car pollutes over 50% more! And that's not even adding electric losses!

Myth BUSTED. And to think you can actually get special treatment for actually polluting more in CA:duh:

 

[MikePA]

Too many people use the word 'free' when they should use the phrase 'someone else paid for it'.

 

[houstonscott]

Could be... I'm 4th generation Oakland and a Tractor owner... can't be all bad? My only comment and I will leave it at that is don't think what happens in California only affects Californians... History has shown what happens in California doesn't stay in California... Even when it comes to taxes... California sends far more dollars to Washington than the other way around. Green may have started here... yet just the other day Texas Governor Rick Perry said he is considering moving to California and recently he was taking a Tesla all Electric for a test drive... Could Texas Gov. Rick Perry be mulling move to ... California? | Dallas Morning News Just remember without California... Californians and their electric cars may soon be coming to a State near you...

Your still living the the 1950's. Sounds like you didn't get out. California is a laughing stock, an has become the example of what not to do, that's how disconnected you are. HS

 

[Loren49]

Electric Vehicles: Myths vs. Reality | Electric Vehicle Guide

Myth 1: Switching to an electric vehicle will just mean that the same amount of pollution comes from the electricity generation rather than from the tailpipe — I'll just be switching from oil to coal.

Reality: According to a range of studies doing a ‘well to wheels’ analysis, an electric car leads to significantly less carbon dioxide pollution from electricity than the CO2 pollution from the oil of a conventional car with an internal combustion engine.[1][2][3] In some areas, like many on the West Coast that rely largely on wind or hydro power, the emissions are significantly lower for EVs. And that's today. As we retire more coal plants and bring cleaner sources of power online, the emissions from electric vehicle charging drop even further. Additionally, in some areas, night-time charging will increase the opportunity to take advantage of wind power -- another way to reduce emissions.

A caveat to consider is that when coal plants supply the majority of the power in a given area, electric vehicles may emit more CO2 and SO2 pollution than hybrid electric vehicles. Learn where your electricity comes from, what plans your state or community has for shifting to renewables, and whether you have options for switching to greener power

Myth 9: Charging an EV on solar power is a futuristic dream.
Reality: The technology to power your EV with solar power is already available. The investment in solar panels pays off faster when the solar power is not only replacing grid electricity, but replacing much more expensive gasoline. According to Plug In America, EVs typically travel three to four miles (or more) per kWh (kilowatt hour) of electricity. If you drive 12,000 miles per year, you will need 3,000-4,000 kWh. Depending on where you live, you will need a 1.5kW-3kW photovoltaic (PV) system to generate that much power for your vehicle using about 150 to 300 square feet of space on the roof of your home. According to SolarChargedDriving.org, for both vehicle and other home electricity needs, you will need about 7-10 kW of solar power in total on your roof. If your solar system is already in place but does not have enough panels for both home and vehicle charging needs, you may be able to buy a converter that can handle another "string;" micro inverter systems may be particularly good for this. Utility credits for the daytime solar power can offset the cost of charging the car at night. If solar PV isn't feasible at your home, find out if your utility offers a green energy option.


Lots of other information at site.

Loren

 

[DarkBlack]

Wrong. I've Done the calculations. Here you go...

Without even getting into the nasties of coal. Lets start by looking at CO2 which greenies love to pedestal:

1) Gas economy car getting 40 MPG. After 40 miles: 1 gallon gas burned =19.64lb CO2

2) Nissan Leaf EPA tested 34 Kwh electicity / 100 miles. Convert to 40 miles
0.4 * 34 Kwh = 13.6 Kwh used in 40 miles

Per the EPA site:
"The average emission rates in the United States from coal-fired generation are: 2,249 lbs/MWh of carbon dioxide,
13 lbs/MWh of sulfur dioxide, and 6 lbs/MWh of nitrogen oxides"

Convert to Mwh to Kwh: 2,249 lbs/MWh / 1000 = 2.249 lb CO2 per Kwh
2.249 lb Coal * 13.6 Kwh needed to go 40 miles = 30.59 lb CO2

That's 30.59 lb CO2 to go the same 40 miles the gas car does with 19.64 lb CO2
The electric car pollutes over 50% more! And that's not even adding electric losses!

Myth BUSTED. And to think you can actually get special treatment for actually polluting more in CA:duh:

If anyone sees any calculation mistake or misinformation in my above post please let me know.

 

[BobRip]

If anyone sees any calculation mistake or misinformation in my above post please let me know.

To my limited knowledge your calculations look good. Your assumption that all electricity comes from coal is rarely true. Most cars do not get 40 miles per gallon, buy certainly many hybrids do. I notice that another article use 28 mpg as a basis. I think you raised a good point though. I guess the best learning from this is that you have to know where your electricity comes from. My ideal approach would be improving the efficiency of internal combustion engines. I have seen two concepts that look very promising. One was a two pistons in each cylinder being pushed apart. VW was claiming 50% thermal efficiency from this. Another was a 6 cycle engine where water is injected in the I think 5th cycle. It turns to steam from wasted heat. You now get two power strokes for six cycles, versus one in four. I am glad there is so much development going on and so much interest. May the best ones win.