Black pipe or galvanized for shop air lines?

[Raspy]

I'm about to do my shop with air lines, but I would not use rubber hoses because I've had so many of them fail during the construction of the house. They eventually crack and begin to leak. Plus you have to mount it and create drops that allow quick disconnects without flexing very much. PEX is not good enough for me because it is so close to it's design limit of about 100 PSI at 180 degrees or 180 PSI at 70 degrees. This means a regulator and reduced pressure to the air supply lines if you have a 2 stage compressor.

For me copper makes the most sense, but black or galvy look very good too. These offer a permanent, safe and easy to connect to manifold.

One problem is getting from the compressor to the wall mounted regulator on my setup. That flexible hose keeps failing. It sits at full pressure and eventually cracks.

 

[jenkinsph]

Mike,
I like the copper crimp system too, but I didn't mention it because of the expense of the tools involved. I wouldn't think most of the guys' here would go there. Most of the new work in area is done with Viega pex fittings now which is replacing the Vanguard with brass fittings. The hard water is eating through the brass.

 

[dragoneggs]

I put a T on my compressor and have two hundred foot hoses for outside and one fifty foot hose for inside my shop. I roll up the hoses and keep them and garden hose metal holders attached to the wall. I got to thinking about running lines and can't justify the expense or time when it doesn't accomplish anything other then giving me another location for the hose to connect to. The hose will still be running across the floor of my shop and it doesn't matter where it's attached to.

Eddie

Well said... I guess my situation is similar. I would go with copper and drain valves if you felt you really needed a hard connection and outlet somewhere in your shop. I just can't see it unless you have multiple users and a lot of machines needing it. Still have to drag a hose.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

I used rubber air hose in my old basement shop. My compressor was in the garage on the other side of the house. I hung it so there were no sag spots, kept it neat and used brass Ts at the drop locations, worked out great. I even had an air outlet in the upstairs laundry room and outside on the far end of the house by my shed. Minimal investment in time and money.

 

[TomSeller]

Old school. Copper, with slope and auto drain.

 

[mikehaugen]

Mike,
I like the copper crimp system too, but I didn't mention it because of the expense of the tools involved. I wouldn't think most of the guys' here would go there. Most of the new work in area is done with Viega pex fittings now which is replacing the Vanguard with brass fittings. The hard water is eating through the brass.

I agree, I certainly wouldn't. I have access to the tools and still probably wouldn't use those fittings. The fittings cost a lot more, and you are relying on an o-ring which could over time get brittle. Also you can't easily disassemble them. If a valve goes bad, you are kinda screwed as they deform the pipe slightly. I have talked to a plumber that claims he has occasionally had success splitting the fitting with a hacksaw and getting the jaws of the crimper just right to follow the flats on the pipe. I always use threaded valves and unions and threaded adaptors just in case.

I was not advocating the use of the fittings, especially for a home diy project, just pointing out what we use. They are easier but we never had any trouble with black pipe. Black pipe is what I would use, or copper with sweat fittings. The point of my post was more about the separator question

 

[blackdog2086]

It all depends on your intended use. Some shops would get by fine with just a couple of hose connections. But other shops would not. If you have lots of different uses for air, it would be like having one 120v outlet for the whole shop, and running extension cords all over the place, and constantly having to go over and unplug one thing and plug in another. And the you end up walking/tripping over all the hoses, they get damaged by sparks and things falling on them, etc.

Long hoses also restrict air. Unless you get a really large one, if you have something that uses a lot of air like a spray gun or a grinder, their performance will not be very good with a long hose. A decent piping system will in itself act like a air tank, giving a little bit more capacity to a compressor that is marginal to begin with.

I guess this forum's theme is "do it yourself" and I include in that being able to readily buy it also at a reasonable price. Copper is nice but expensive. I think threaded pipe is pretty much the only thing you will find that has the id for good flow. Someone said something about PEX. If that would work it might be a option too.

Your post pretty much sums up the reason I want to run hard piping around my barn. I'll be using air impacts, ratchets, grinders, sanders, grease gun, blowers, and occasionally a spray gun. My barn is 60 X 40 and I have a lot of ju........stuff that constantly snags my air hoses.

I figure a few strategically placed connections will make working on my equipment much easier, without constantly having to find out what my hose is hung up on and free it.

The winters get cold my way, and the summers can be humid. Like everyone else on this site, I can't let the weather dictate when I use my tools and equipment, so weather will definitely be a factor in my decision. I hadn't really considered copper because of the cost and the fact that it tends to form condensation more rapidly than the thicker steel in the humid months. I'm sure in most situations it would work great, but I'm not sure mine is one of them.

Sorry for the long gaps in response, but I'm not able to check the site as often as I'd like. The posts so far have been great and I am getting a lot of good ideas, and am considering some things that wouldn't have entered my tiny brain without your help.

 

[JRP]

I used PEX and am very happy. sharkbite fittings are fast and reuseable. This would be your lowest cost solution, and no rust.

Concerning water, the tank contents will be at 100% humidity. If you regulate the tank outlet then the air expands when it goes thru the regulator and reduces pressure. The expanded air contains the same quantity of water molecules, but because the air volume is larger the percent humidity will be less than 100% and you wont have liquid water in your air.

Install a regulator at the tank outlet.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I like the feed back here. Lots of good ideas. I didn't realize that pvc was not a good choice and now I even know why.

Now for some more of my $.02 worth. No one has yet mentioned an overhead setup similar to what's used in car washes. I for one do not like hoses laying on the ground as I've had too many sprained ankles out of them. All of the hoses that I use regularly in my shop come from overhead with self coiling hoses hanging down. That way I'm not stumbling over anything. My trouble light also hangs from a retractable cord.

For those that are having trouble with the short connector hose between the compressor and hard lines just install a piece of hydraulic hose. You can either buy them made up or get them made at a farm supply store. I've had one in place for about 15 years now with no leaks as the hose is rated for 3000 psi. You can get them made with just about any type of fitting on the ends.

 

[Samuellm]

Yes, that is a purpose built product for compressed air systems, probably on par with copper when you price it out.

You mentioned "PEX" and "Kitec" so I took that as you where suggesting the regular stuff made for water lines-hence my comment to see if they approve such use.

I did Google "Kitec" though as I had never heard of that brand, all I found was reference's to a major class-action lawsuit and settlement...

I installed a factory worth of similar stuff a few years ago expensive but the only tools you needed was a sharp knife or a hose cutter. Did 3/4 main line with 100s of 1/4 drops for each machine so fast and neat much better than draging a oxi set around in the ceiling.

 

[Deere Dude]

I installed a factory worth of similar stuff a few years ago expensive but the only tools you needed was a sharp knife or a hose cutter. Did 3/4 main line with 100s of 1/4 drops for each machine so fast and neat much better than draging a oxi set around in the ceiling.

All that is needed is a little propane tank with a little turbo torch which are very easy to carry and use for any solder even some silver solders. That is all that's needed for copper and it's cheap to operate.

 

[LD1]

Im in the camp of forgetting about the hard piping and just using hoses. I am only one guy, and can only use one tool at a time anyway.

One or two of these are probably cheaper than hard-piping everything and still needing a hose

Master Distributor of Industrial Hoses, Hose Fittings, Hose Clamps Hose Reels, Retracta Hose Reels - Retractable High Pressure Hose Reels - HoseXpress

 

[kennyd]

One problem is getting from the compressor to the wall mounted regulator on my setup. That flexible hose keeps failing. It sits at full pressure and eventually cracks.

As already mentioned, use a section of hydraulic hose, it will outlast you and is readily available with NPT fittings.

 

[the old grind]

... I am only one guy, and can only use one tool at a time anyway...

Oh come ON, man! Electrical outlets on every wall, hot & cold water in every 3rd room, and you expect us to sacrifice convenience where we need it most??

Bad enough that we have to do our own work and pay for it, then you come along and tell us we might do as well with less!

Been too much work for me hooking others up over the years. I'm going to wait another year or so and get the DeWalt 36v Li-Ion cordless compressor package with 'water-preventer technology', cross draw holster, and belt-slide HVLP painting system. :laughing:

Seems every other, if not every idea herein is wrong to somebody. Six pages in I'd hate to be the guy planning something like this ..... :silly:

 

[LD1]

Electrical outlets on every wall because things that require electric usually have their own 6'+ cord for attaching. Drills, saws, grinders, lights, chargers, etc.

Most things that require air in a home shop do not.

 

[the old grind]

Electrical outlets on every wall because things that require electric usually have their own 6'+ cord for attaching. Drills, saws, grinders, lights, chargers, etc.

Most things that require air in a home shop do not.

Oops, sorry if you missed my total satire. Wrong smileys?? Beneath it all I try to compliment some of the 'most sage' advice so far ...

I'm sure we'll get past it.

6' whips on some tools to not foul a spring-ey coil hose coming from wall outlet where it's not convenient to hang a reel (mine are hand-wind type). Less to trip over when bifocals give you the choice of stumbling or banging your head.

Universal swivels on most whips, esp nailers, low torque total-air-hogging ratchets, tire chucks, and hoses that aren't used just to extend a line to a remote job.

Had to jack up my drag line (Erie 15-B, 35' boom) from where it had settled to sell it. 100' of 12 Ga cord to a 1 1/2 hp compressor, then 150' of hose to a HFT 20 Ton air-over bottle jack. Pumped to full stroke in < 30 sec. Had to re-crib several times as base under the jack sank till firm, but only had to do the job once.

btw, hydro hoses are cheap at TSC & I'm using them with their fittings too, If they hold air ok they're not so sweet with JD's >2500 PSI & if your wrenches are only 24" long.... :grumpy:

 

[Texasmark]

I used copper to plumb my shop in 1981. Easy to work, not all that cheap in today's market but was cheap then and PVC was somewhat new to the market around here and 160 psig was the rating; was not Sch. 40. On PVC, BIL ran a PVC line from his house to his shop with no problems. If running PVC I would use Schedule 40 which I think is 300 psig rated. The burst pressure on things like that is usually 4:1 for safety derating. My air systems put out 125 so it wouldn't be a problem for me either way. Other thing is that my shop is for me and not a commercial establishment which might cause one to lean toward metal.

On moisture, if you are worried, you can put a slight slope in the lines as they extend out from the compressor and at point of use install a filter with a drain valve in the bottom. On the ones I bought from WW Grainger supply, the housing was clear plastic so that you can see how much water and the valve was a little black tube that you just pushed sideways to vent the water. The instructions on my air tank, vertical 60 gallon state that you should frequently drain it anyway. If in a low humidity environment that wouldn't be very often.

HTH,
Mark

 

[SPIKER]

One thing to watch,

I put in my Compressor and some HF Water Separator regulator which had the Gauge setting on it at the bottom. In a hurry I installed it said I'll fix that next trip to store to get the proper 1/4" pipe to put it on top. Yep it filled up with water froze and broke first year... NEW one is fixed with gauge on top, I installed plenty of drop legs for water separation & draining. Bought a TSC med pressure Hyd Hose to plumb from Compressor to Wall regulator setup. I built a small manifold on the wall outlet from regulator with a couple full pressure T's and Regulated T's with 1/4" air QDs. I set the blaster next to the compressor and have short hose from full pressure fitting to it. I [plumbed in a drop leg for water drain outside wall with flexible 1/4" poly tubing and one off bottom of compressor with a Auto Drain that I can hit with air hose rather than every cycle just use Air Gun into the tube and blow it off once or twice a quarter.

My setup is using Hoses from the manifold as like LD1 and others I'm only one using it and just leave em out & walk around the hoses... I had thought of using hard lines (black pipe NOT GALV) or Copper and drops at benches, but I keep moving that stuff around at will... Just using hoses pretty much from now on.

Mark

 

[NCMau]

I would not go PVC either but...PEX is the way to go. Cheaper, much more flexible to install and just as good as metal pipe. I bought 100 ft from NH and I made 3 drops in my shop... easy project.

 

[franklin2]

This is sort of on topic, and possibly a consideration for the OP...

I work in an industrial environment, and have installed thousands of feet or black pipe for air lines. Just recently we have switched to using copper with crimp fittings for just about everything becuase it is so easy. Anyway, I have a theory about the water seperators and some agree with me and others not. Some people like to put in bigger separators (probably because they don't get emptied like they should), but I think you would lose performance that way. Looking at how they appear to work, they will do best with more air velocity going through them, so using one designed for say a 1" line on a 3/4" line would not be beneficial. Hopefully someone that knows them better will shed some light on this, and we can all benefit from the knowledge, since we are talking about moisture in lines.

They make this crimp type fittings for black pipe now also. It comes with a gizmo that "trues up" the od of the pipe, and it uses steel fittings with o-rings just like the copper style fittings. We just got one where I work.

The biggest problem with moisture is the heated air from the compressor. The compressor heats the air when it compresses it, so the air will have the ability to hold more moisture. As the air flows out into the system, the rest of the piping tends to be cooler, and the this makes the moisture "fall out" of the air. It's very hard to avoid this, thus why the piping system is designed to accomodate some moisture in the piping. That is all a air dryer is; A A/C unit that cools the air so the moisture will drop out. But even it can't get it all out, especially during high flow rates.

When we added another 150hp compressor at one of the factories I worked at, it was on the north side of the building and we actually put the storage tank outside in the shade of the building. Just keeping the tank cool will help the moisture drop out of the air. We usually put automatic drains on all the tanks.