Help me improve my welding...

jrdepew · Jul 4, 2014

Yesterday I was at a local hardware store and walked through their welding section. They had a 5lb box of Forney 7018 rods in a box for 16 dollars, which seemed like a decent price. I had been wanting to try 7018, so I picked them up. I got to thinking on the way home that I should post some of my welding on the forum and get some input on what I am doing right/wrong.

Some background first...I started off with a 110V MIG welder years ago and did some welding for car parts and general fixing. Three years ago I bought a house, and a tractor, and right away I started thinking about building/fixing stuff on the tractor, and knew I would need more welder to get it done. I wired the garage for 220 and bought a stick welder with some 6011/6013/E308 rod from a friend of a friend. So far I have just been practicing and made an ugly repair to the skids on a neighbors brush hog.

So, I cut up a piece of 1/4" steel and formed a t-joint, and started laying passes down while taking notes and pictures.

My welder is one of the 230/140A AC/DC welders with the lever on the front to change the current, a very common design from what I hear.

T-joint setup and first pass with 1/8" 6011 at 80A. I was obviously going too fast at the start...probably just excitment. I slowed it down about 2/3rd of the way through and put some decent looking weld down. I read that 6010 may be a bit smoother on DC, but all I have around is 6011 for now. A bit cold and I was moving a bit fast:

Then I ran my first ever 7018 bead...I can tell that I am going to like this rod. Lays down smooth. I forgot to check my welding slide rule for amperage settings for 7018, and although I should have noticed, I ran my first 1/8" 7018 way too cold at 80A (machine was set there from the 6011 pass). The bead looked cold, sounded cold (hindsight after I ran the next beads) and the slag was a pain in the butt to remove:

From there I realized that the 7018 was way too cold, and turned up the welder to 110. Slag removal was easier and I was getting closer to the correct temperature. Some missed spots, probably too cold and too fast still. I noticed that I had a hard time getting the bead to move up into the vertical piece of metal. The overall bead was low and sitting more on the bottom plate, definitely not a 45 degree angle:

120A, this is getting much nicer for sound and slag removal. A little better at melting into the vertical plate, but still to high of a rod angle to get the penetration in the top plate I'm looking for.

Going back to the bottom of the fillet weld, my welds clean up a lot, and I raised the current to 130. Slag removal was much easier and it burned in nicely. This was probably my best bead of the day if I had to guess:

Overall, I had way more weld on the bottom of the T joint that the vertical piece. I need some more practice!! If I keep the rod angle at 45 degrees to the two plates, I seem to keep depositing on the horizontal section, and not getting much weld on the vertical. Should I drop my hand down and reduce the angle to try and push the arc more towards the vertical? Or am I missing something else here? I see some of the fillet welds on here that look very good and they achieve a full 1/4" fillet. Is that with a single pass? Is that possible with 1/8" rod?

More questions, what are the limitations on my machine (other than duty cycle?)...could I weld 1/2" plate with it using multiple passes? Or is 140A not enough and I would have to switch to AC? I have yet to weld anything on AC yet but know I would need to use 6011 and 7018AC if I go that route.

Someone needs to drop one of those PA200's off at my house for me to do a long term test with

.

Long post...let's hear the comments and criticism, I can take it.

Thanks,
Joe

Shield Arc · Jul 4, 2014

On your 6011 weld looks like you're dragging the rod more so than whip and pause. Just for fun, try making a laid over J motion. The long side of the J on the bottom plate. The curl of the J will go up on the top plate. You want a stack of dimes look with 6011, or 6010.

The 7018 weld made at 130-amps. With the pin holes, and splatter, I'd guess you had too long of an arc length. With 7018 jam the rod right into the puddle.

All in all they don't look all that bad! :thumbsup:

Arc weld · Jul 4, 2014

A 1/8" rod should burn about 6-7". One question though, what polarity were you running on? Makes a big difference when using DC current. Should be electrode positive. Also never go by what the machine says. Go by what the weld tells you. A weld calculator can get you in the ballpark but the best way to set your heat is to weld on a piece of scrap. 6011 is a smoother weld than 6010 but not by much. Both are supposed to look rougher than other rods.

jrdepew · Jul 5, 2014

Arc weld said:
A 1/8" rod should burn about 6-7". One question though, what polarity were you running on? Makes a big difference when using DC current. Should be electrode positive. Also never go by what the machine says. Go by what the weld tells you. A weld calculator can get you in the ballpark but the best way to set your heat is to weld on a piece of scrap. 6011 is a smoother weld than 6010 but not by much. Both are supposed to look rougher than other rods.

I was on DC Electrode Positive, so the rod holder was positive, and the work clamp was negative. I was getting more length than 6-7" out of one rod I think. I will pay more attention to that when I run beads on the other side of the t-joint...

Thanks for the help all!

Arc weld · Jul 5, 2014

Let you practice plate(s) cool or have a few different ones. All the heat from previous welds will mess with the speed and heat needed.

Gary Fowler · Jul 5, 2014

Looks like you were oscillating the 7018 like you should be doing on the 60xx rods. 7018 works best by just using a very short arc and dragging it with little to no movement side to side. Puddle control is managed by the angle of the rod.

jrdepew · Aug 21, 2014

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I have been plugging away and getting better but with a a busy summer sometimes it is hard to find time. I am thinking that I want to build a proper welding table with movable vise mount for the garage as my temporary setup is getting a little annoying.

Anyway, I went and picked up some 3/32 and 1/8 6010 rod from the LWS. It is a lincoln product...and WOW am I having issues with it. I have gotten pretty comfortable with 6013 and 7018, but with 6010 I am struggling. Last night I burned probably a dozen rods on a test plate, and it started off very ugly. Around 55-60A with the 3/32 I was making the test plate look like a porcupine. The rod seems very hard to start compared to 6013/7018. I generally have to scratch, then long arc to establish, then move closer to the puddle. This usually leaves a nice big goober at the beginning of the weld. The rod acts funny as well, it seems to run much better as the rod gets HOT...for a test I stuck it for about 3-5 seconds, then laid a bead and it went smoother. I noticed that the beads got much better after I got down to about half a rod, I am guessing that the heat is why.

If I turn the current up closer to 80A, which is on the high end of 3/32 rod and 1/4" plate, I get much easier starts and can lay down a bead, but the bead is very wide and it appears to be gouging very deep. I feel I have to move very fast at this current which messes up my whip and pause resulting in an uneven, wide, hot looking bead.

If I just go to the store and buy a 5lb box of 6010 linclon rods, what rod is this exactly? If i type the serial number off the box into google it only comes up at a few welding supply stores, and it doesn't say anything about 5P, 5P+...is that something that is on the package or just known by the part number? Not trying to blame the rod...but I am surprised how hard this is to use .

Any input?

Thanks,
joe

mikehaugen · Aug 21, 2014

IMHO, 6010 is the hardest rod to make a "pretty" bead. It burns hot and penetrates very well though. It is usually used for a root pass then covered with 7018 as it has higher tensile strength, but doesn't penetrate as well.

Arc weld · Aug 22, 2014

5P+ is a much improved 6010 over the original 5P. Lincoln added something to the flux to make them burn smoother but I can't remember what. It should say one or the other on the package but 5P isn't seen too much anymore. Strangely enough 6010 need about 5% moisture in the coating. If the rods are burning kind of funny, try dipping one in water, wiping it off and then welding with it. The moisture won't affect the weld. 6010 generally use less heat than 7018. A 1/8" 6010 uses about the same heat as a 3/32" 7018 but another way to set your heat it is to strike an arc and push the rod right into the plate while it's burning. If your heat is too cold, it won't keep an arc. This is how a lot of pipe welders set their initial heat for doing root passes. They may need to tweak it a bit but this gets them in the ball park. Once they try welding on the pipe they can adjust their heat as required. 6010 takes a little more practice to get the hang of.

jrdepew · Aug 22, 2014

Arc weld said:
5P+ is a much improved 6010 over the original 5P. Lincoln added something to the flux to make them burn smoother but I can't remember what. It should say one or the other on the package but 5P isn't seen too much anymore. Strangely enough 6010 need about 5% moisture in the coating. If the rods are burning kind of funny, try dipping one in water, wiping it off and then welding with it. The moisture won't affect the weld. 6010 generally use less heat than 7018. A 1/8" 6010 uses about the same heat as a 3/32" 7018 but another way to set your heat it is to strike an arc and push the rod right into the plate while it's burning. If your heat is too cold, it won't keep an arc. This is how a lot of pipe welders set their initial heat for doing root passes. They may need to tweak it a bit but this gets them in the ball park. Once they try welding on the pipe they can adjust their heat as required. 6010 takes a little more practice to get the hang of.

Thanks for the tips! I noticed that when I had the welder set hotter and got a bead going, I could pretty much push the rod right into the gouge during my whip motion and it would burn deep and stay lit. Still think I may have been a little hot though, as the bead was getting very wide, so I was moving faster that I could move and keep the whip and pause consistent.

These are the rods from the LWS...Any idea what I have here. It is odd that I can't even find these on Lincoln's website...

Here is a picture of the welder for reference...Pretty common design from what I can tell. Looks like a bunch of companies took the same exact welder, with different paint, and sold it. I know of a guy who has a Linde that looks identical except for the paint.