Everlast plasma?

[Arc weld]

It's really funny how people think. Some people think Ford sold over 500,000 8N's because they were so much cheaper than other tractors despite being dangerous to operate. Hypertherm is generally the most respected name in plasma and about the most expensive. Not taking any sides. Lots of people have been happy with both Everlast and Hypertherm machines. Just a comparison that makes you go hmmm. Sometimes even the best machines can have the odd one with a problem. Aircraft certainly have and people have been killed because of it. These are plasma machines, they can all break down for who knows what reason. Don't think it always has to be a competition or bashing of the other brand.

 

[Arc weld]

Really? I ask some serious questions that any person would ask before spending hundreds with a stranger and cheap shots is what I get? Nice.

I haven't been on here too long but I know Yomax has worked in the welding supply industry for quite a few years. I would think he would take his own machine to a reputable repair shop. He was trying to see if it might be covered by warranty. My post wasn't meant as a cheap shot, just an observation.

 

[jimcolt]

The Powermax45 is by far the biggest selling plasma cutter, worldwide. It has been in production for roughly 5 to 6 years (I don't remember the exact intro to the market) and there are roughly 60,000 in the field. Like anything, yes they occasionally break down. The nice thing is that they break down a lot less than many other plasma cutters.....and the performance in terms of cut quality, consumable life, and versatility makes the units a sound investment in most applications. I will compare consumable life, cut power and cut quality vs any plasma cutter in the same class....the 45 is a good industrial quality machine.

Sounds like Yomax simply wants to sell the broken Powermax as opposed to repairing it. I can understand that, sometimes when you have too much going on it is easier to replace than to repair. I just did the same with a well used Cub Cadet...sold the old one in a broken state and bought a new one....and did not miss a beat in getting by lawn mowed.

I actually own one of the first Powermax45's built.....was used for cnc cutting for a few years until I upgraded to an 85 amp unit. The 45 is used often for hand cutting today. Never had an issue with it yet....

Jim Colt Hypertherm

 

[kencunningham]

I bought a 50 amp plasma cutter on ebay for 315 bucks shipped. The comsumables are dirt cheap which is good since they dont last very long, and it doesnt cut nearly as well as name brand units. However, i only have a occasional need to cut irregular shapes and not thick metal.

 

[BlacknTan]

So, let's see here. A used unit from Hypertherm when it breaks is not worth fixing and is a gamble because it would only be 400.00 less than a new one? Jim said that was a good price. A value on a unit like that has to drop so far as to be not worth a new cheap import plasma cutter if it has a problem? I think that Yomax's point has been proven folks...and the rhetoric has come back to bite this argument in the ole "power cord". FYI, a power board for an Everlast is a little over a hundred dollars. 1/7th the cost of the unit. The board cost of the Hypertherm and the repair bill costs nearly as much as an Everlast PowerPlasma 50. Yeah, it is a gamble. Use a machine 3 years and then it's not worth fixing if it does tear up because the cost to repair is nearly half the unit's new cost, and people balk because you are asking only 500.00 for it. Where's the resale value now? Where's all the "value" to it of buying an over priced brand? That is the oldest form of bait and switch... Buy a new unit because it costs too much to repair the one you bought from us 3 years ago. Sure someone is going to say, "I'd still rather have the Hypertherm that is broken than a new Everlast with a 5 year warranty.(or insert your choice of import brand and warranty here)". But the emperor clothes are see through...

I love this post!!

Irony at it's finest! A true case of the pot calling the kettle black ... The guy who cries like a scalded cat when anything negative is mentioned about his machines.

Now, who would I buy from? A company based in my own backyard with real warranty service, or an importer that contracts with a Chinese factory that pays to have their equipment sprayed green and stickers applied? Seems like a no brainer, to me at least!
Buy an American machine that can be repaired, or a throw away import that is not worth the price of shipping back for repair?

BTW .. Where are the everlast warranty stations, and how many of them are there?

But, we each choose how to spend our change ... Something passed on to me long ago. Long before rappers and pimps coined our phrases ..

" A fool and his money are soon parted ..."

 

[ThomasH]

I love this post!!

Now, who would I buy from? A company based in my own backyard with real warranty service, or an importer that contracts with a Chinese factory that pays to have their equipment sprayed green and stickers applied? Seems like a no brainer, to me at least!
Buy an American machine that can be repaired, or a throw away import that is not worth the price of shipping back for repair?

BTW .. Where are the everlast warranty stations, and how many of them are there?
"

Hmmm. Me thinks you try to make a point but use wildly inaccurate statements like "throw away import that is not worth the price of shipping back to repair". I just saw a Everlast Tig 200ish amp welders sold on eBay which was used, and untested. It was one of the new digital units, and sold for 75% of what they sell for new.

I happen to own Miller welding gear, but the statement that they won't be worth sending back is simply false.

I do agree with you *if* you are making the point to buy the best tool you can afford, so you don't have to replace it any time soon. I have always done this, and have many old Rockwell and Milwaukee power tools that I will never wear out, that are 40+ years old. However, the notion that "made in America" means that the parts are better is simply not true anymore on electronics. There is very little electronics made in America any more, and unfortunately for American companies, politicians and unions have made it very expensive to manufacture consumer goods here. Add to that, almost all American companies that manufacture consumer and light industrial goods have gone to overseas manufacturing, and at least partially overseas engineered items that are manufactured in ISO certified factories. So the time has long gone that there was a clear cut difference in quality of the item. The only edge some companies have is in innovation, which is where companies that Hypertherm excel. So *if* you are comparing apples to apples (let's say for example that a Hypertherm 50 amp cutter will cut the same thickness as another brand 60 amp cutter due to innovative technology and the consumables last twice as long), it may be that it makes sense to pay more for longer consumable life because there is less down time. This would probably be true in a business environment with a CNC cutter that cuts 5+ hours a day.

Then there are the people like me that are using one for 15 minutes to an hour once or twice a week, which the consumable life is a much smaller concern. My first priority is that the machine works, and the cut isn't too rough, and therefore doesn't cause me to spend much time in cleanup. So I have a pretty crummy Miller cutter that is pretty old (15 years) and worn out, and I just bought a Everlast 80s plasma cutter because it seems to be a good fit for me, has a lot more power, and a 5 year warranty. Even if it only lasts half as long, I have less than a third as much invested (a Spectrum 875 sells for ~$2200 and I paid ~$700 for the Everlast), so unless the Everlast proves to be really unreliable the value is there for me.

Time will tell.

 

[jimcolt]

Made in America does not guarantee the best quality by itself. And as shown in my posts....you can manufacture the best quality anywhere with the correct engineering, design, purchasing and manufacturing processes in place. These processes can get you the newest, off the shelf technology that can make a product perform better and last longer, and if the company has internal control of all of this....expect the process to maintain and be consistent with all new product.

A company that follows all of these rules will have products that cost more....there is no getting away from that. A product made by a company that follows all of these rules and employs people at decent pay and benefit levels will tend to have happy employees that do not "cut corners" when building and testing the products they build, as they each have a stake in the quality that goes out the door in the form of pay, profit sharing and retirement benefits.

To me....one that does all of the above and does it locally (to me, here in the U.S.), will make me happily spend more of my hard earned money for a tool that I suspect will be around for my kids to inherit. Keep in mind that I do not always buy products that are assembled or "made" in the U.S., bigger deciding factors to me are long term performance, the expected ability to buy parts after the product has some age on it, and operating cost. Doesn't matter to me where it comes from, although it helps my decision making process if it does come from U.S. labor.

I was in the grocery store an hour ago.....buying some sea scallops to grill for dinner tonight. The ones from Indonesia were $9.99 / lb., the ones from the U.S. were $17.99. Any guesses on which I bought?

The technology with plasma cutters is not stagnant. There have been many developments and patented technologies in the last 5 to 10 years that improve reliability, consumable life and cut quality. Trust me....the products that are produced as commodities offshore will be less expensive, but will not perform the same. If low price is a major buying decision that trumps performance, reliability, operating cost (as well as local jobs), then the correct choice is a low cost import (or perhaps a used major brand system!) I could not agree more! I'll still buy the more pricey scallops though....

Jim Colt

 

[ThomasH]

The technology with plasma cutters is not stagnant. There have been many developments and patented technologies in the last 5 to 10 years that improve reliability, consumable life and cut quality. Trust me....the products that are produced as commodities offshore will be less expensive, but will not perform the same. If low price is a major buying decision that trumps performance, reliability, operating cost (as well as local jobs), then the correct choice is a low cost import (or perhaps a used major brand system!) I could not agree more!

Jim Colt

Jim -

I am not suggesting that there aren't trade offs. I am, however, suggesting that anyone that states that there are extreme trade offs on many of the better built imported units, is not being honest. It is true that there are some trade offs, particularly in the distribution and dealer support end of things. The traditional business model of distribution with distributors and dealers, and the mark up of each, comes with a corresponding price. So this helps with the most parts availability and dealer support. To many business users, having widespread dealer support is an important thing.

I have an electrical engineering background, and have been watching the "imports" for a number of years as to the components used, reliability, etc. While there are some that I would not touch with a ten foot pole (Harbor Freight, Lotos, etc.) there are some that are pretty well made. The question to each person is one of value, and differences in value. When a piece of equipment isn't critical (my definition is in regular use in a critical process), then using equipment that uses 20-30% more consumables isn't a priority to me. Especially when they use industry standard parts, including commonly wearable parts such as torch parts and assemblies which I can buy from a number of suppliers.

So I am willing to take what appears to me to be a relatively low risk on less well supported equipment as long as I can determine that it appears to be well engineered and doesn't use proprietary parts for common items that need to be replaced.

I certainly hope American companies do well (and it is a plus to me), but in the end it is a question of value to me that drives most decisions. Some will "buy the best" on a name basis as an over-riding value. Unfortunately, I have also seen plenty of over-priced shoddily made items marketed as "Made in America" as a main value. I am thankful for the internet, and being able to see technical specifications and product feedback on many sites, that is *very* helpful to me.

 

[jimcolt]

I agree with much of what you are saying....my background is electrical engineering as well. However....when I say the technology is not stagnant I am talking about high temperature physics (arc temperatures in the 25,000 F plus range) that require advanced engineering in order to improve cut quality, torch consumable parts life, etc. What you may refer to as " they use industry standard parts, including commonly wearable parts such as torch parts and assemblies which I can buy from a number of suppliers", we refer to as old technology.

The torch on a plasma cutter is a fairly high technology device, and the over 100 patents that my company has in regards to torch technology (methods and designs that improve consumable life, cut quality, torch starting technology, torch ease of use, torch safety, etc.) were developed at a fair amount of cost, and the patents are in place to protect the intellectual property rights.....as there are many companies in the world that would be more than happy to copy technology, without engineering costs. This technology in the torch, as well as making the power supplies work as a well choreographed dance with the torch...are part of what sets the systems apart. And a large part of the reason for higher cost.

If you don't need better cut quality, lower operating cost and don't care where the labor came from on a product...then the above is certainly not important. I would be happy to detail any part of the internal technologies that make plasma systems different....if there is interest. I have to be careful that what I say isn't considered advertising for a particular product though! Made in America doesn't buy the best.....technology and consistent design and manufacturing does.

Jim Colt

Virtually all of the low cost plasma systems available

 

[ThomasH]

Jim -

IMHO you long went over the line about advertising.

I am just saying that that better cut quality and lower operating cost is highly emphasized. To the point of trying to make it sound as if no one else makes a plasma cutter that will cut, and of course they use consumables at a high rate.

I agree that to the right customer, improving cut quality and life incrementally will make a large difference. And to me (and a lot of others) if the cut is at least 80% as good and consumables last a reasonable amount of time, I get what I need to out of the equipment.

My experience is with several Miller plasma cutters, which when they worked correctly (most of the time but less so lately), met my needs. Seeing as they were 15+ years old, by definition they used "old technology" but they worked well enough.