So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[Loren49]

Loren, the point of the question was to prove a point. A Nissan Leaf would not even be worth the trouble of getting in it if someone gave it to you in a cold snowy climate, because you would likely be stranded and freeze to death.. It that clear enough? In fact back over 100 years ago when electric cars were all the rage, the ranges were similar, and the usages similar.. tooling around town in non fatal weather to get from point A to Point B when Point A and B were not too darn far apart. Now when some of these new Lithium batteries are developed and tested and put in actual cars, this will be help by some factor. But until then, you are not going to sell electric cars to guys like me.

Never said or implied that EVs are the better choice for anyone in particular. What you said is clear yet it still makes little sense! Point didn't need to be made because each of us has differing standards as to what we need/want and are willing to put up with.

Question: Which is a better choice an F350 diesel or an electric golf cart? My answer/opinion: What are your needs/desires. Sure would look funny at the 17th tee with my Ford:cool2:

What is the perfect vehicle to transport our butts around???

Loren

 

[houstonscott]

Never said or implied that EVs are the better choice for anyone in particular. What you said is clear yet it still makes little sense! Point didn't need to be made because each of us has differing standards as to what we need/want and are willing to put up with. Question: Which is a better choice an F350 diesel or an electric golf cart? My answer/opinion: What are your needs/desires. Sure would look funny at the 17th tee with my Ford:cool2: What is the perfect vehicle to transport our butts around??? Loren

To answer your last question, a BMW 328d. HS

 

[SirReal63]

I would prefer the 530d, much nicer ride than the 3 series, some amazing mpg too.

I don't think we can get them here yet, which is a bummer.

 

[dave1949]

I think technology should pay it's own way... I also believe regulations shouldn't impede advancement.

<snip>.

Successful technology does "pay its own way." The timing of when the payment is received varies greatly, but it often lags deployment.

The high-tech medical gear at your hospital surely pays its own way, but someone invested a lot of money and talented time before that happened. No doubt some ideas and prototypes never made it out the door, but someone paid for that and that cost is part of the cost of developing successful technologies.

Regulations and government involvement sort of fall into three broad categories:

1) Mandates. The level playing field rules everyone is playing by, public or private, because the outcome is perceived to be good and necessary. There are often exclusions carved-out for special interest groups that may or may not make sense.

2) Subsidies. Public investment in something that is perceived to be needed and useful that is too risky to attract private investment. The pay-off is too uncertain or too long for typical business models. These tend to be high risk investments that can succeed or fail spectacularly. Subsidies that have failed or succeeded, but out-lived their intended purposes, often die hard.

3) Standards. Usually intended to protect and promote the safety of the public. Private enterprise is of necessity driven by profits. There is a long history of profit at the expense of public safety. A balancing force is required which only government has the power and ability to provide. Standards are preventative by their nature. Legal recourse is after the fact (of harm) by its nature. Defining the line between trying to protect everyone from everything, and having sufficient standards, is the source of much amusement.

Rural Electrification is an appropriate example for this thread. Electric utilities would not extend service to rural areas due to the investment needed and long payback period. Bringing electric service to farms is credited with vastly improving agricultural production, improving food quality and public safety. It also made rural life more enjoyable.

Rural Electrification Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Rural Electrification Act of 1935 provided federal loans for the installation of electrical distribution systems to serve rural areas of the United States.

The funding was channeled through cooperative electric power companies, most of which still exist today. These member-owned cooperatives purchased power on a wholesale basis and distributed it using their own network of transmission and distribution lines. The Rural Electrification Act was also an attempt made by FDR's New Deal to deal with the crippling amount of unemployment.

 

[wngsprd]

I think it is silly to argue about, and arguing will not change anyone's mind...but I will add this classic, in hopes of lightening the mood a little.

Whenever I get a package of plain M&Ms, I make it my duty to continue the
strength and robustness of the candy as a species. To this end, I hold
M&M duels.

Taking two candies between my thumb and forefinger, I apply pressure,
squeezing them together until one of them cracks and splinters. That is
the "loser," and I eat the inferior one immediately. The winner gets to
go another round.

I have found that, in general, the brown and red M&Ms are tougher, and
the newer blue ones are genetically inferior. I have hypothesized that
the blue M&Ms as a race cannot survive long in the intense theatre of
competition that is the modern candy and snack-food world.

Occasionally I will get a mutation, a candy that is misshapen, or
pointier, or flatter than the rest. Almost invariably this proves to be
a weakness, but on very rare occasions it gives the candy extra strength.
In this way, the species continues to adapt to its environment.

When I reach the end of the pack, I am left with one M&M, the strongest
of the herd. Since it would make no sense to eat this one as well, I pack
it neatly in an envelope and send it to M&M Mars, A Division of Mars,
Inc., Hackettstown, NJ 17840-1503 U.S.A., along with a 3x5 card reading,
"Please use this M&M for breeding purposes."

This week they wrote back to thank me, and sent me a coupon for a free
1/2 pound bag of plain M&Ms. I consider this "grant money." I have set
aside the weekend for a grand tournament. From a field of hundreds, we
will discover the True Champion.

There can be only one.

I stopped reading this thread a week ago because I thought all the bases had been covered pretty well. Because it is still so active, I took another peek. So glad I did because this is a real jewel. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ultrarunner]

I thought rural electrification and rural phone service was a trade-off granted for monopoly status...

For decades my city has signed an exclusive contract with Waste Management, a for profit private company, for garbage service and makes this service mandatory under threat of a tax lien for unpaid garbage service... makes no matter if the home is occupied or unoccupied...

I have almost zero garbage... reuse, re-purpose, recycle...

A small local company has just been awarded the contract and the giant Waste Management has threatened to tie things up in court for years...

It is precarious when the public is mandated with the full weight and power of local government to contract for a service that may not even be used...

Forced compliance is a concept that continues to grow... on a State level vehicle owners are required to maintain/pay to register motor vehicles that are not operated at a reduced rate if the fee is paid... paying not to use your car just is counter intuitive.

 

[dave1949]

I thought rural electrification and rural phone service was a trade-off granted for monopoly status...

So? Who can grant and enforce monopolies? Who loaned the money to extend service? This comment is another example of, "Well, it wasn't a perfect achievement" while overlooking the considerable good that resulted. Always nitpicking to no purpose is a downer. :laughing:

For decades my city has signed an exclusive contract with Waste Management, a for profit private company, for garbage service and makes this service mandatory under threat of a tax lien for unpaid garbage service... makes no matter if the home is occupied or unoccupied...

I have almost zero garbage... reuse, re-purpose, recycle...

A small local company has just been awarded the contract and the giant Waste Management has threatened to tie things up in court for years...

It is precarious when the public is mandated with the full weight and power of local government to contract for a service that may not even be used...

More nitpicking. I assume you live on streets that aren't lined with piles of trash? Your trash goes to proper facilities? Residents don't drive off into the woods and dump their household trash? Everybody has trash, good on you that you have so little. Come to rural Maine, or rural anywhere judging by various posts, and I will point out the difference between mandated trash pickup and not. People around here who do have town trash pickup have a hard time selling "pay as you throw" too.

Forced compliance is a concept that continues to grow... on a State level vehicle owners are required to maintain/pay to register motor vehicles that are not operated at a reduced rate if the fee is paid... paying not to use your car just is counter intuitive.

Forced compliance is going to continue to grow as the population rises. Your discontent reflects a desire to be treated as a unique individual with unique needs. That becomes harder and harder to do with efficiency as populations increase. I'll save you from noting that you haven't contributed to population growth--IIRC and AFAIK Vehicles have a public record that is maintained by tax dollars whether it is driven or not. You are not paying just a "driving" fee.

Carving out 1000's of exceptions is only going to increase the overall costs of administration and enforcement. Laws and regulations are not made to be optional or elective by only those who "need" them. One of the valid criticisms of current day legislation is that it is too complex in its attempts to accommodate a variety of demands and interests. It contains too many exceptions and conditions to be administer-able. Now, who's fault is it that enforcement is needed, and that all these exceptions are needed?

I'm not cheering for mediocrity here, but a buffet meal budget cannot provide cooked to order results. How much are you or anyone willing to pay to be treated as a completely unique individual?

 

[sseelhoff]

I would prefer the 530d, much nicer ride than the 3 series, some amazing mpg too.

I don't think we can get them here yet, which is a beamer.

Fixed it for you.

 

[ultrarunner]

Carving out 1000's of exceptions is only going to increase the overall costs of administration and enforcement. Laws and regulations are not made to be optional or elective by only those who "need" them. One of the valid criticisms of current day legislation is that it is too complex in its attempts to accommodate a variety of demands and interests. It contains too many exceptions and conditions to be administer-able. Now, who's fault is it that enforcement is needed, and that all these exceptions are needed?

I'm not cheering for mediocrity here, but a buffet meal budget cannot provide cooked to order results. How much are you or anyone willing to pay to be treated as a completely unique individual?

Most likely I'm a throw back to an earlier time... and most definitely unique!

A perfect example of refusing to deal with reality is the blanket ban on home heating with wood...

I and many of my neighbors bought and installed EPA certified stoves with permits and catalytic converters... they are proven ultra low pollution and the air quality management district has acknowledged this... however, they say regulating who has an approved stove and who doesn't simply isn't possible... so we all must comply with the ban.

Also, many of the agencies making these rules are not even elected officials...

Give me the rules and go from there... don't change them after the fact... especially when those of us followed all the rules and our stoves are not the problem.

As to mandatory garbage under threat of property lien... this just smacks of a sweetheart backroom deal... I'd say most of America's streets are not buried in trash.

 

[ultrarunner]

Back on point...

At 7:45 am this brand new Mercedes Sprinter FED-EX kind of truck pulls up the loading dock at work with a priority delivery.

The noteworthy part is this very large commercial van is all electric... battery powered for a greener environment written across the sides.

I've seen electric mail trucks in the past... never something as large as this...

FedEx Introduces First All-Electric Trucks To Be Used in the U.S. Parcel Delivery Business | FedEx Newsroom

FedEx hopes electric trucks will deliver savings - SFGate