So I raise raise hogs, geese, ducks, chickens and turkeys on a 'hobby farm'. We raise these things for food, for ourselves and others. If we attach the label 'hobby' to any farm that cannot pay 100% of the bills, then I suspect most of America's farmers are hobby farmers. Sad, eh?
OK. Enough philosophy.
I currently have a 1980 Deutz-Allis 5230 31 HP tractor with Kelley loader and backhoe. The thing is fugly, but it's a tank. The only time it won't start is every few years when the battery eventually craps out. There have been exactly two owners in its life: myself and my stepfather. I have had it since 2005, when my stepfather retired and sold it to me with the admonition to never, ever get a trailer for it because, "they will never stop calling to ask you to dig **** up, if you get a trailer."
All these years later, I still don't have a trailer. Wise advice.
My tractor will pull 14' chunks of 30"+ wet beech logs up a steep incline, so that I can turn it into the heat that warms my kids. It lugs water tanks through the woods to the remote pig pens, every day. It helped cut into a valley to build the backstop on our shooting range, and it has buried one of my favorite Berkshire hogs that caught a bad cold. That was a sad day, because I really loved 'Porkchop' and was looking forward to eating him.
Just this weekend I sent the tractor to a shop for the second time in a decade. I blew a front tire (an original from 1980) and I had some hydro lines that need replacing. I asked him to toss in an oil change and hydro flush for kicks. I am still mostly happy with the beast, even if it needs some new seats, some paint and maybe some rubber straps to keep the lid from bouncing around.
So why am I looking at another tractor?
I'd like more power. But honestly, I am primarily attracted to a more comfortable ride. My brother got a Bobcat CT440 (Kioti) tractor a few years back and loves it. It has a cab. Cannot beat the cab. I also want HST because I do a lot of loader work, and spend a lot of time in thick woods going back and forth. Also, the wife can - but won't - drive the current beast. I want something she will use. This last week she lugged water tanks on a pickup through the woods, and pushed them by hand into position, rather than use the tractor. She's only 4' 10" and maybe 105 pounds. She really does not like driving my tractor.
I am in Southern Maryland - east and south of DC and pretty much level with Virginia. I think the locals aligned with the Confederacy during the war, but frankly nobody cared because to this day we are a spit of sand nobody cares about. But I am 45 minutes from the US Capitol, so we get a certain "pressure" from those looking for a home away from the Hellmouth of DC. I raise hogs and my neighbor wants street lamps. Ugh. We are called the "Western Shore" and our chief agricultural commodities are tobacco, 4-legged livestock and land that magically sprouts McMansions and BMWs. Locally (within an hour or so) I have JD, Massey and Kubota but none of them 'big' dealers. If I stretch to 2 hours, I got Kioti and, New Holland and Mahindra. I left out the construction guys (Bobcat, JCB, Cat, etc.) because I am not sure they do what I do. Correct me if I am wrong. Please.
My requirements:
- 40-60 engine HP: I would probably lose traction before HP, but I like to lift heavy things. I bottom out 7x16 R1 tubes, frequently. If extra HP translates to higher lift, or more resale value, I care. Otherwise, not.
- Speed: Don't care about speed or cruise control. Too many jinks and turns for me to be constant. I can keep the manual in a single range today, but not high range.
- Loader: I lift sand, gravel, dirt and wood mulch. Mostly mulch and water (1000 or less at a time, but it drives a ways). I also push stuff and back-blade a fair amount. I run over lots of small trees to clear land. And I often cut a big heavy tree then haul it out my wrapping a logging chain over the bucket and pulling it out 1/4 mile or so. I'm not abusive, but I work it hard.
- Hoe: Typical farm junk - small/mid stumps that are in the way, and the trench or footer that needs to get done. Honestly I have lived without one for the last few months because the hose that sprung a leak is way up the arm of the hoe and I didn't have a way to fix it. But I did miss it more than a few times. So I want a hoe, and I want it mean enough to reach out and dig someone. I do have a 1500' trench to run, so that I can avoid running water to animals every day...
- Clearance: I have a wood lot. No simple pastures for me. Hills are steep, and trees are big - I have some beech that run almost 4' in diameter (not a joke). I raise Berkshire hogs out in the woods. They love the acorns and beech nuts, and I appreciate the fact that they do not get too hot in our summers. Winter gets cold, but the deep woods are 5 degrees warmer if you pick the right spot.
- Traction: 4WD is a must. I am surrounded by natural springs, and our geography is sand and clay. You can figure out the rest.
- Comfort: I want a cab. I get in and out of the tractor a lot, but still want a cab. I like the idea of cooling off for a few minutes on those 100+ degree days when I still gotta work outside, or warming up on those below-zero days when I gotta work outside. Also want HST, because I do a lot of loader work and I want the wife to be comfortable on the ride. Also, my three and six year olds like to ride with me and the cab seems safer than an open platform, where I have to dedicate an arm to playing seatbelt for them. I also hope a cab will be nicer to the gear in the long run, because for now I will park this outside. My barn be full.
- 3pt: I don't run implements other than a hoe today. My brother set his Kioti up with a winch to pull logs. Seems smart to me, so I want to do the same. Don't tell my little brother (120 pounds of muscle bigger than me, I am the runt of the litter) that I am following his lead. He'll never let me live it down.
- Weight: I do run acoss some lawn every now and then, but only on days where the R1 tires won't kill everything below it. That said, I'd like to stay somewhere below 4.5K pounds in weight (buh-bye M59).
- Other: those natural water springs done sprung a new path to the sun these last few years. They have shifted from one area, to the top of a hill and one side, over the last decade. The base is dry, but the top is wet. It makes no sense, but the easiest path now seems to be to the top of the hill. This is killing oak and beech trees that are close to a century in age (read: huge). They are rotting at the root ball and just falling over. I lose 3-4 a year and that is up from 1 every four years. I think the whole lot is going to fall soon - there are black marks crawling up dozens of trees and the other day an 8" limb fell 60 feet to where my wife was standing just 60 seconds earlier. I don't like to cut things that beautiful, but nature is making some calls. The tractor is working extra hard taking these trees out, when they fall. A single fallen beech last year heated my home over a super-cold winter for three months (they are that big). I have maybe a dozen big trees that need to come down now. I need a bigger beast to cope with them. The upside is I converted our house to wood gasification two years ago (awesome), and it saves us easily $5K a year even though we now crank the temp up high.
So...
I have 'decided' about four times: keep the current beast; go Kubota; go JD; go Massey. And lastly: Kioti.
Kubota: I really lied the Kubota TLB models on paper - esp the M59. I sat in one this last week and it was impressive, and big. Bigger than I thought. Also, no cab. If it had a cab, I might go smaller (L45). But a cab is kinda a big deal for me right now. If I pay money, I want the cab. I told the Kubota guy (in another state, and a hge dealer selling tons of these things) that if they put a cab on the TLBs, they would own the market. He was embarrassed and said everyone agrees and they don't know why the mothership ain't figured it out, yet. But darn nice TLB. I also looked at the 4-series cabs, and they were darn nice. I know they are well serviced and supported. Service is a "Big Effing Deal", as crazy-as5 Uncle Joe Biden likes to say.
JD: I cannot get past the attitude of, "we are John Deere and you must worship at our altar." Seriously, tell me about the fracking 4 series or shove off. I gave up and am leaving the analysis with the expectation that the rumors they are overprices and under-powered are true. Because nobody cares enough to tell me otherwise.
Massey: I sent my tractor to a Massey guy, but he is not even listed on the MF website. Guy Brothers is SoMD is awesome, and MF is darn close to a sale of the 17 Premium series just based on the fact the owner - Perry - has taken care of me twice, and has been nothing but a gentleman the whole time. I want more info on the 17-series, just because of his suggestions.
Kioti: How can anybody beat these guys on price/value? Seriously. Someone just priced a NX4510 HST Cab with loader at under $32K delivered. My brother loves his. Money is tight, and these guys might win on that alone.
The Beast: It works, and it always starts. It meets the minimum, but not much else. Only me and my brother and brother-in-laws will run it, and they are hundreds of miles way.
So please help me here. I am not afraid of the research. I am mostly interested in what ailments exist. I am terrified of getting a 'new awesome' and find it in the shop like a foreign car, with the bills to boot. Tier 4 does not worry me, unless it causes me problems. I'd like a trade-in, and one of my model sold for about $5K with just an under-powered loader. But do I keep a backup?
My questions: assuming the above options are all 'local' enough, is this a price competition or are there significant values in one over the other? If service and longevity are my priorities, who has the best reputation and who is going to have the tractor on a trailer every few months, for a repair?
God bless y'all for considering the assistance. I can trade what I know, for what you know. Unfortunately all I know is hogs, Muscovy ducks, guns and high-performance technical compute systems (supercomputers) the size of a football field (really).
OK. Enough philosophy.
I currently have a 1980 Deutz-Allis 5230 31 HP tractor with Kelley loader and backhoe. The thing is fugly, but it's a tank. The only time it won't start is every few years when the battery eventually craps out. There have been exactly two owners in its life: myself and my stepfather. I have had it since 2005, when my stepfather retired and sold it to me with the admonition to never, ever get a trailer for it because, "they will never stop calling to ask you to dig **** up, if you get a trailer."
All these years later, I still don't have a trailer. Wise advice.
My tractor will pull 14' chunks of 30"+ wet beech logs up a steep incline, so that I can turn it into the heat that warms my kids. It lugs water tanks through the woods to the remote pig pens, every day. It helped cut into a valley to build the backstop on our shooting range, and it has buried one of my favorite Berkshire hogs that caught a bad cold. That was a sad day, because I really loved 'Porkchop' and was looking forward to eating him.
Just this weekend I sent the tractor to a shop for the second time in a decade. I blew a front tire (an original from 1980) and I had some hydro lines that need replacing. I asked him to toss in an oil change and hydro flush for kicks. I am still mostly happy with the beast, even if it needs some new seats, some paint and maybe some rubber straps to keep the lid from bouncing around.
So why am I looking at another tractor?
I'd like more power. But honestly, I am primarily attracted to a more comfortable ride. My brother got a Bobcat CT440 (Kioti) tractor a few years back and loves it. It has a cab. Cannot beat the cab. I also want HST because I do a lot of loader work, and spend a lot of time in thick woods going back and forth. Also, the wife can - but won't - drive the current beast. I want something she will use. This last week she lugged water tanks on a pickup through the woods, and pushed them by hand into position, rather than use the tractor. She's only 4' 10" and maybe 105 pounds. She really does not like driving my tractor.
I am in Southern Maryland - east and south of DC and pretty much level with Virginia. I think the locals aligned with the Confederacy during the war, but frankly nobody cared because to this day we are a spit of sand nobody cares about. But I am 45 minutes from the US Capitol, so we get a certain "pressure" from those looking for a home away from the Hellmouth of DC. I raise hogs and my neighbor wants street lamps. Ugh. We are called the "Western Shore" and our chief agricultural commodities are tobacco, 4-legged livestock and land that magically sprouts McMansions and BMWs. Locally (within an hour or so) I have JD, Massey and Kubota but none of them 'big' dealers. If I stretch to 2 hours, I got Kioti and, New Holland and Mahindra. I left out the construction guys (Bobcat, JCB, Cat, etc.) because I am not sure they do what I do. Correct me if I am wrong. Please.
My requirements:
- 40-60 engine HP: I would probably lose traction before HP, but I like to lift heavy things. I bottom out 7x16 R1 tubes, frequently. If extra HP translates to higher lift, or more resale value, I care. Otherwise, not.
- Speed: Don't care about speed or cruise control. Too many jinks and turns for me to be constant. I can keep the manual in a single range today, but not high range.
- Loader: I lift sand, gravel, dirt and wood mulch. Mostly mulch and water (1000 or less at a time, but it drives a ways). I also push stuff and back-blade a fair amount. I run over lots of small trees to clear land. And I often cut a big heavy tree then haul it out my wrapping a logging chain over the bucket and pulling it out 1/4 mile or so. I'm not abusive, but I work it hard.
- Hoe: Typical farm junk - small/mid stumps that are in the way, and the trench or footer that needs to get done. Honestly I have lived without one for the last few months because the hose that sprung a leak is way up the arm of the hoe and I didn't have a way to fix it. But I did miss it more than a few times. So I want a hoe, and I want it mean enough to reach out and dig someone. I do have a 1500' trench to run, so that I can avoid running water to animals every day...
- Clearance: I have a wood lot. No simple pastures for me. Hills are steep, and trees are big - I have some beech that run almost 4' in diameter (not a joke). I raise Berkshire hogs out in the woods. They love the acorns and beech nuts, and I appreciate the fact that they do not get too hot in our summers. Winter gets cold, but the deep woods are 5 degrees warmer if you pick the right spot.
- Traction: 4WD is a must. I am surrounded by natural springs, and our geography is sand and clay. You can figure out the rest.
- Comfort: I want a cab. I get in and out of the tractor a lot, but still want a cab. I like the idea of cooling off for a few minutes on those 100+ degree days when I still gotta work outside, or warming up on those below-zero days when I gotta work outside. Also want HST, because I do a lot of loader work and I want the wife to be comfortable on the ride. Also, my three and six year olds like to ride with me and the cab seems safer than an open platform, where I have to dedicate an arm to playing seatbelt for them. I also hope a cab will be nicer to the gear in the long run, because for now I will park this outside. My barn be full.
- 3pt: I don't run implements other than a hoe today. My brother set his Kioti up with a winch to pull logs. Seems smart to me, so I want to do the same. Don't tell my little brother (120 pounds of muscle bigger than me, I am the runt of the litter) that I am following his lead. He'll never let me live it down.
- Weight: I do run acoss some lawn every now and then, but only on days where the R1 tires won't kill everything below it. That said, I'd like to stay somewhere below 4.5K pounds in weight (buh-bye M59).
- Other: those natural water springs done sprung a new path to the sun these last few years. They have shifted from one area, to the top of a hill and one side, over the last decade. The base is dry, but the top is wet. It makes no sense, but the easiest path now seems to be to the top of the hill. This is killing oak and beech trees that are close to a century in age (read: huge). They are rotting at the root ball and just falling over. I lose 3-4 a year and that is up from 1 every four years. I think the whole lot is going to fall soon - there are black marks crawling up dozens of trees and the other day an 8" limb fell 60 feet to where my wife was standing just 60 seconds earlier. I don't like to cut things that beautiful, but nature is making some calls. The tractor is working extra hard taking these trees out, when they fall. A single fallen beech last year heated my home over a super-cold winter for three months (they are that big). I have maybe a dozen big trees that need to come down now. I need a bigger beast to cope with them. The upside is I converted our house to wood gasification two years ago (awesome), and it saves us easily $5K a year even though we now crank the temp up high.
So...
I have 'decided' about four times: keep the current beast; go Kubota; go JD; go Massey. And lastly: Kioti.
Kubota: I really lied the Kubota TLB models on paper - esp the M59. I sat in one this last week and it was impressive, and big. Bigger than I thought. Also, no cab. If it had a cab, I might go smaller (L45). But a cab is kinda a big deal for me right now. If I pay money, I want the cab. I told the Kubota guy (in another state, and a hge dealer selling tons of these things) that if they put a cab on the TLBs, they would own the market. He was embarrassed and said everyone agrees and they don't know why the mothership ain't figured it out, yet. But darn nice TLB. I also looked at the 4-series cabs, and they were darn nice. I know they are well serviced and supported. Service is a "Big Effing Deal", as crazy-as5 Uncle Joe Biden likes to say.
JD: I cannot get past the attitude of, "we are John Deere and you must worship at our altar." Seriously, tell me about the fracking 4 series or shove off. I gave up and am leaving the analysis with the expectation that the rumors they are overprices and under-powered are true. Because nobody cares enough to tell me otherwise.
Massey: I sent my tractor to a Massey guy, but he is not even listed on the MF website. Guy Brothers is SoMD is awesome, and MF is darn close to a sale of the 17 Premium series just based on the fact the owner - Perry - has taken care of me twice, and has been nothing but a gentleman the whole time. I want more info on the 17-series, just because of his suggestions.
Kioti: How can anybody beat these guys on price/value? Seriously. Someone just priced a NX4510 HST Cab with loader at under $32K delivered. My brother loves his. Money is tight, and these guys might win on that alone.
The Beast: It works, and it always starts. It meets the minimum, but not much else. Only me and my brother and brother-in-laws will run it, and they are hundreds of miles way.
So please help me here. I am not afraid of the research. I am mostly interested in what ailments exist. I am terrified of getting a 'new awesome' and find it in the shop like a foreign car, with the bills to boot. Tier 4 does not worry me, unless it causes me problems. I'd like a trade-in, and one of my model sold for about $5K with just an under-powered loader. But do I keep a backup?
My questions: assuming the above options are all 'local' enough, is this a price competition or are there significant values in one over the other? If service and longevity are my priorities, who has the best reputation and who is going to have the tractor on a trailer every few months, for a repair?
God bless y'all for considering the assistance. I can trade what I know, for what you know. Unfortunately all I know is hogs, Muscovy ducks, guns and high-performance technical compute systems (supercomputers) the size of a football field (really).
I really enjoyed your post. Your asking the right questions and I'm sure you will get lots of responses. Have fun on your journey for your new tractor.
