I have a Ford 1700 and I cleaned the filter changed the fluid. 3pt does not work at all no movement or anything. Pulled the cylinder out and turned tractor over and all the fluid empties back into the diff bypassing the cylinder all together. Guess my question would be what would cause this so that I remove the correct part this time or adjust the right thing. Sorry I am new to hydraulics and picked this tractor up for $500. Runs great just perplexed by the hydraulics. Thanks
square1
Veteran Member
There is an knob front & center beneath the seat. IIRC, turning that knob counter clockwise slows the 3 pt speed, turning it all the way CCW will stop it from moving. I may be wrong on which direction slows / stops. Try adjusting that knob.
Yeah I got that but the problem is the fluid is not reaching the cylinder. Its dumping into the diff instead of making it to the cylinder. Guessing either the relief valve or another valve prior to the cylinder to be the culprit just not sure how many valves before the cylinder there is or how to access them.
square1
Veteran Member
Lopok at post #39 here for another thought
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ord-1720-3-point-lift-4.html?highlight=1700+3
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ord-1720-3-point-lift-4.html?highlight=1700+3
I did learn a little from that post thanks square1. I borrowed some pictures to illustrate where I am confused. The first shows where no fluid is coming. The second shows where the fluid is flowing from the top and over what is circled. I'm trying to figure where it is being diverted or blocked. Ok so pulled the whole side cover off and the bottom pic shows where the oil is coming out. Hope this helps someone help me.
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square1
Veteran Member
There's a couple guys here that have been elbows deep in there 1700 hydraulics. Hopefully they'll see this and be able to offer you some advice. It's beyond my level of experience at this point. Best wishes Lawman.
chopped
Veteran Member
I agree Id think this member could help you...
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/members/jc-jetro.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/members/jc-jetro.html
JC-jetro
Elite Member
I just saw this thread. if you have flow diverted to diffy it means two things. it is either diverted from pressure relief device to diffy and in that case the valve should chatter against seat and spring. You will for sure hear that. Secondly, if the spool valve is in neutral position at any height the flow is diveterd to diffy thru spool valve.
Are you sure if your pump inlet is flooded, pump not cavitating and actually pumping? if you take the relif pressure cap off and a bucket to collect oil then you can verify pump flow to relief device.
On the lift cylinder head if you take the nut off on the left hand (from driver sea) then you can verify flow to the cylinder head.
with the rate of drop knob fully closed (turtle position to the max) then you can raise the 3 point but once reaches max it can no longer accept fluid and all have to by pass thru spool valve on neutral position.
My wild guess is that your are not pumping oil. what do you mean when you say flow is diverting to diffy, are you running the tractor with lift cylinder head removed and then you observed flow?
JC,
Are you sure if your pump inlet is flooded, pump not cavitating and actually pumping? if you take the relif pressure cap off and a bucket to collect oil then you can verify pump flow to relief device.
On the lift cylinder head if you take the nut off on the left hand (from driver sea) then you can verify flow to the cylinder head.
with the rate of drop knob fully closed (turtle position to the max) then you can raise the 3 point but once reaches max it can no longer accept fluid and all have to by pass thru spool valve on neutral position.
My wild guess is that your are not pumping oil. what do you mean when you say flow is diverting to diffy, are you running the tractor with lift cylinder head removed and then you observed flow?
JC,
Yes I have good flow from pump to the relief device but no flow from the relief device to cylinder head aka the nut on either side of the cylinder head. I pulled the cylinder head and turned the ignition over a few times watching fluid flood the diffy from the place marked in the last pic. I suspect the relief device as being my culprit but not positive as I am not very well versed in hydraulics. As of now I have no movement from the 3pt at all. I hope that clears up your questions and thanks for answering as you seem to be the go to guy and I am quite confused. Background on the tractor is it was a $500 find that worked prior to be parked for 3 years. The hydraulics worked fine for previous owner until he changed an axle then they stopped and he never bothered to fix since he just pulled a finish mower.
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JC-jetro
Elite Member
On 3 point arm there is a rod that connects the right arm to spool valve. That is a feed back arm that causes the flow be diverted to diffy at any give height of 3 point. is it connected? it is not missing I suppose ? right? if that is disconnected the arm will rise to it max position and the relief would chatter. At that point raising the lift arm handle up and down would have have no effect and 3 point arm will stay at it highest point. Did you take the cap off the relief device and observe tractor running? there is a poppet and spring that sets the hyd pressure setting for the tractor about 2300 psi.
PS. Just noticed that you had the side cover off, no way you could have done it without removing the feed back arm.
PS. Just noticed that you had the side cover off, no way you could have done it without removing the feed back arm.
Xfaxman
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Did it work before you cleaned the filter changed the fluid?
Yes it was connected until I pulled the entire side cover. Not sure if this is my problem but here is a pic of the relief valve on my tractor. Everything I read in the manual as well as your picture says I should have a relief valve pictured as you've shown however, mine looks like the one attached with a large bolt on the end instead of a cap and screw.
JC-jetro
Elite Member
That is a type the pressure is adjusted by adding or subtracting shim to change spring stiffness causing new hyd pressure setting. Try to answer question I asked on feed back arm.
JC,
JC-jetro
Elite Member
although it is a rare occurrence but your spool valve might be faulty. Has this thing ever worked? did you have 3 point movement prior to oil change? with the cylinder head removed and engine on did you try to manipulate the lift arm handle? anything happened then ? did you here relif rattling onec you lifted the arm all the way up as far as you can move it?
JC,
According to the previous owner it worked fine until he changed a bent axle then it quit all together. It sat for 3 years until I purchased it in non running condition but a hot battery took care of that. I have yet to get any movement from the 3 pt at all before or after fluid change. With the engine on and cylinder head removed I get fluid from the top flowing back into the diff no matter what the position of the handle maybe. No rattling when the arm is all the way up.
JC-jetro
Elite Member
Ok. when you removed the head then there is a passage way and an o-ring that transfers oil to the head and thru a needle valve to lift piston. are you saying that nothing came out of that hole and all was transferred to diffy internally? right?
Two things can prevent that from happening,
1- less likely issue with spool vlave with blow out seal that or somehow stuck in neutral position (transferring un-used oil back to diffy)
2-Your relif device is stock open . More likely.
I suggest to you to remove the nut from relief device and inspect shims, and spring, run the tractor to see if oil come out of that hole. take a bucket to avoid mess on the floor. I hope you have some dirt that stuck in there and keeping the valve open. (same as kidney stone). Clean the seat of the poppet valve for the relief and put back together. start tractor and see raise and lower the arm to see if any oil come s out of the hole on the lift cover hole lining up with the hole on cylinder head.
Try it and report back.
JC,
Two things can prevent that from happening,
1- less likely issue with spool vlave with blow out seal that or somehow stuck in neutral position (transferring un-used oil back to diffy)
2-Your relif device is stock open . More likely.
I suggest to you to remove the nut from relief device and inspect shims, and spring, run the tractor to see if oil come out of that hole. take a bucket to avoid mess on the floor. I hope you have some dirt that stuck in there and keeping the valve open. (same as kidney stone). Clean the seat of the poppet valve for the relief and put back together. start tractor and see raise and lower the arm to see if any oil come s out of the hole on the lift cover hole lining up with the hole on cylinder head.
Try it and report back.
JC,
JC-jetro
Elite Member
Yes , that is the spool valve. the hole on the top might be relief port when the spool is pushed to normal position by action of feed back arm. I have not opened mine, did not need to bu there are I belive two spools, two highly polished shaft with some oring that direct the flow to three point cylinder head/piston and unused portion of the hyd oil back to diffy. Your hyd is constantly pumping hence live hydraulics.
Do what I suggested earlier before you get in to the spool, you do not want to damage the innards if it still good. Eliminate one item at a time from small to big.
Jc,
