Welder electroquted Sad...

[aczlan]

I don't know if 220 in Europe is different but they have far fewer problems with electrocution at home. Maybe theirs is a true 220 while ours is piggybacked double 110.

In the US, 110v is always 110v from hot to neutral and 220v from hot to hot (and it alternates from +110v to -110v in relation to neutral 60 times per second, with 220v one side is at +110v while the other is at -110v).
The EU spec is 220v from hot to neutral and it alternates from +220v to -220v (in relation to neutral) 50 times per second, so if a higher voltage is more dangerous, theirs should be more dangerous.


Aaron Z

 

[IslandTractor]

In the US, 110v is always 110v from hot to neutral and 220v from hot to hot (and it alternates from +110v to -110v in relation to neutral 60 times per second, with 220v one side is at +110v while the other is at -110v). The EU spec is 220v from hot to neutral and it alternates from +220v to -220v (in relation to neutral) 50 times per second, so if a higher voltage is more dangerous, theirs should be more dangerous. Aaron Z

It's not the voltage so much as the cycle rate per second that is dangerous. As I recall, 60 cycle is more likely to interrupt normal heart rhythm than 50 cycle. i'll see if I can find a reference.

 

[IslandTractor]

It's not the voltage so much as the cycle rate per second that is dangerous. As I recall, 60 cycle is more likely to interrupt normal heart rhythm than 50 cycle. i'll see if I can find a reference.

It is a bit more complicated. Lower cycles per second are less dangerous but I'm not sure the difference between 50 and 60 cycle is great. 25 cycles per second is tolerated much better. DC is low risk as there is no cycling.

Amperage matters too. Paradoxically, with cardiac fibrillation risk, lower amps are worse than higher.

And, remember that cardiac events are only one way that electricity kills. Thermal burns from truly high power sources do more damage.

 

[drizler]

Sad. I wonder why the deputy and family did not break into the facility rather than waiting for a person to show up with a key? With his car there in the lot, it would be reasonable to assume he was in the facility. It doesn't say how long that wait was, but response time could make a difference in many situations if not this one.

That's exactly what I was thinking. That deputy had plenty of reason to force a door . They don't have to wait for someone to show up if it takes all night.

 

[TomSeller]

Dead is dead. Thinking that AC is less dangerous because you can let go " because the power oscillates " is an interesting theory.

Enough said

 

[brain55]

This is an interesting debate on AC vs DC. I'm not an electrical engineer so I only know what I've been taught and hope that I'm not taught wrong. I received factory Cushman training on their 72v ZEV like what NYPD used for their "meter maids". They spend a lot of time cautioning us about "DC death" on these high voltage/high amperage machines. One of the first things you did when working on them was to raise the cover that also mechanically split the batteries into 2 36v packs to reduce the electrocution risk. They continually warned us about how dangerous that much DC current could be. I have no reason to doubt them.

I also had a welding teacher that opened the back of a 480v welding machine and got electrocuted and lived to tell about it. Apparently it contracted all of his muscles and he spent 6 months in the hospital recovering and many years relearning some motor functions and lots of psychotherapy to overcome the ringing in his ears. He seemed fine by the time I had him as a teacher.

 

[CNC Dan]

I don't know if 220 in Europe is different but they have far fewer problems with electrocution at home.

Europe. I didn't catch that.
Yes, I think Europe 220 volt system is different than North America 220 volt system.

 

[drizler]

I don't know if 220 in Europe is different but they have far fewer problems with electrocution at home. Maybe theirs is a true 220 while ours is piggybacked double 110.

That Euro 220 still bites really bad. When I was stationed over there I had an old brass lamp in my room. One of those nice tall ones. If you grabbed that thing just right and flicked the switch it would bite you hard. Not just a snap but that real bite that left your whole arm numb for a while.
I would say the real reason for fewer electrocutions is the 2 small round electrode holes recessed into the wall . They are about 1/4 the size of our blade configuration so it's that much easier to stick the knife, wire or whatever in it.

 

[MossRoad]

According to some facebook posts on the News site, an elleged coworker said "It happened 5 min before we clocked out so nobody noticed. He was in a steel box 100 foot long in the middle so he couldnt be seen."

 

[k0ua]

I can only provide anecdotal evidence, but I have been shocked by 120 VAC lines a few times and while bad enough, on dry skin, I sure was glad the path was across fingers and not thru my heart area. I got bit once on a 330 Volt DC line once. This power supply was probably current limited to about 500 milliamps or less, but still it knocked the Pizz out of me and made me ill for some minutes.

The current path was thru my fingers and out near the elbow of the same arm.. The other hand was in my pocket as all good TV servicemen are taught. Servicing Televisions was a dangerous job when I was a young man, before the solid state revolution when the chassis of television sets were made of steel, and full of vacuum tubes. I never got hung on the 800 volts or so on the final tubes that drove the horizontal deflection (flyback circuits) as those were truly lethal, but changing one of the small tubes in a tuner section got me bit with the 330 volts on a feedthrough capacitor sticking up thru the tuner chassis.

I have worked on transmitters with over 3000 volts on the finals and power supply's good for an ampere of current, but you always take serious precautions with things like that, but it was the little receiver B+ voltages around 300 volts that could get you.

I cannot imagine grabbing on to 220-240 volts AC that is current limited by a 200 amp breaker that will blow after a couple of minutes of frying your butt. I have seen old electricians with calloused dry hands touch 120 volt circuits to test them but I have never seen one grab onto 240 volts to test it that way. Twice the voltage with a given skin resistance equals twice the current flow, plus the higher voltage can more easily break down your skin resistance to increase current flow to an even greater degree.

I have heard some electricians say that a 220 volt shock is more likely to "blow you loose" from the circuit with greater damage but a 120 volt shock is more likely to hold you on to the circuit, and kill you. I don't know if this is true, as the 120 volt shocks I have received with dry hands and not thru a vital region of my body, were enough for me. I have never been shocked by a 220 VAC circuit and I prefer it stay that way.

I have been "shocked" by the 48 volt battery supply's that act as backup for large PBX telephone systems. But you have to be sweaty to feel it. With dry hands you cannot feel a thing. These supply's are capable of instantaneous currents in the hundreds of amperes, and you are in danger of serious burns if you place a metal object across them. A wrench will turn white hot and melt in a couple of seconds, if you are in front of the fusing. There is also a great danger of explosive hydrogen gas release.

Ain't electricity fun. :shocked: