Lucky to be ALIVE!!!

[bigcut]

Just to reinstate I was aware of what could happen, but was UNAWARE it had been put back in gear. I was aware if in gear it would learch forward, but Unaware how fast. If you're 99.9% sure & aware of something that .01% on the hundredth time can & will get you.
Also there is a rops that's up 100% of time and seatbelt. There's also been NO seat safety or otherwise switches bypassed or disconnected. Infact the keys were not even the tractor. I did know & aware that these things could happen. I now have a unmeasurable lesson about thinking twice and more about how fast accidents can happen

Gary,
Like you said, your were tired.

Maybe the good Lord had this happen to teach all of us a valuable lesson. Thanks for having the courage to share this unfortunate incident. We all wish you a speedy recovery.
John

 

[tedmed0302]

Hey Gary, here's to a speedy recovery! Ignore all the half wits who don't even really know what they are talking about. I'm sure your story will raise the eyebrows on a lot of fellow owners as well as brother machines like the Nortrac, etc. Hey this was a pretty extreme way of getting out of the fall cleanup though, LoL!! Heck I think you will miss most of the snow removal season too!! At any rate, thanks for posting and take care.

 

[Coyote machine]

You're missing the POINT. You're ASSUMING everyone on the planet is aware of EVERY potential safety hazard, guess what they aren't. Don't conflate " flagrant disregard for safety" IE folding down ROPS, with, getting off a tractor while it's running WE'VE ALL DONE IT, although me not so much any more reading all the horror stories. but none the less we all do things that seem appropriate until they turn UGLY.

The OP did just that, he did something innocent, that turned UGLY. No ones fault, no one to blame, it's an ACCIDENT, and that's how accidents happen.

I mean how many times have you run up or downs stairs until the ONE DAY you sprained your ankle?

So to beat up anyone who makes a lapse in judgement, or is ignorant to certain facts that are obvious to you is unfair. CHIT happens, and when people can feel free to post "stupid mistakes" without the SAFETY POLICE, or the YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER Police beating up on them, then we all win.

If on the other hand we continue as a site to make people feed like a moron for passing on their foibles, then we will be relegates to a tractor site that has nothing more on it than " I bought a new tractor SEE HERE IT IS " or "LOOKIE HERE at my new garden" ...really is that what you want?

YOU SAID:" It is my opinion that everyone makes mistakes, obviously, that's not the point here. What is the point is everyone needs to THINK before acting whenever working on or around machinery."...that's probably the most unaware statement I think I have ever read. THINK ABOUT IT, people can "THINK" till the cows come home, and that will not help them make a better decision IF THEY ARE UNAWARE.

As in this example the OP was UNAWARE the tractor would lurch forward once the started was shorted out. Just because something is obvious to you doesn't make it so for all. Now if your suggesting that everyone gets out a service manual on specific equipment and stsep by step instructions, I'm with you, but to expect people to think about something they are unaware of is ludicrous.

Maybe this will help:
Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.

You can rant on all day about what I've said. I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that serious accidents like the one in this thread ARE avoidable. Being tired is the first thing that tells me an accident is more likely to happen. That fact is a prerequisite to failure when dealing with machinery. The OP has several times said he was aware of what could happen and yet, probably because he was tired, ignored the red flags and went ahead with the repair. Had he not been tired he might well have headed the voice telling him there was high risk of a bad outcome. He went ahead. He did not confirm neutral, he did not chock the wheels, he did not disconnect the battery ground. He did not use anything to keep the wrench from grounding to surrounding metal. Is my stating the obvious make me callous to his situation? NO! I'm not playing holier than thou position or any second guessing here. What I am doing is saying each of us has to take responsibility for our own actions, and if we end up hurt as a result of overlooking basic safety then its on us. I'm not blaming him, it is not his fault, BUT it is his outcome and he is taking responsibility for his errors. I will bet he will never look at any machinery the way he did prior to this tragedy.

I never compared folding a ROPS with getting off a running tractor. I referred to a post in this thread about someone who said they were moving their tractor while standing on the ground.
I'm neither of the 'police forces' you refer to, and you can't have it both ways. Most who complain about safety police are the first ones to rant about ROPS and seat switches, and if they end up on the bad side of their decision what do they have to point a finger at? One can either ignore safety and remove devices, or one can heed safety warnings and have situational awareness, which includes not working on/with machinery when tired. Shooting the messenger accomplishes nothing.

Thinking means applying what one knows, (and the OP said he DID know what could happen, AND he made critical errors in THINKING the tractor was in neutral when it wasn't). In order to operate any machine it's necessary to know how it operates and how to prevent things from going wrong. Without this basic knowledge then don't operate the machine in question. You rant on about how people can't think about things they're not aware of....
Ignorance BTW, is no excuse. And in this situation, the OP was and is NOT ignorant of what he could have done, but unfortunately did not do to protect himself from harm.
I'll tell you what I do as an example. If I think I'm possibly going to put myself at higher than usual comfort level of risk, I will stop what I'm doing, or before I start what I might do I'll give the task serious thought. Then, on occasion I may ask another person, family member, or associate to spot me while I do the task, or ask their opinion or thinking on the situation. Having someone nearby when at greater than usual risk is a good idea. For instance, I can and have operated chainsaws with out anyone being around. BUT I know that puts me at greater risk of a bad or worse outcome, than if someone is nearby to call or radio to for help.

 

[TomSeller]

The wrench immediately fell clear, but solenoid stayed internally shorted somehow, learching forward again as my feet, legs , hips and metal gate it front tried to hold it back. It never started, but about every 5 secs it would take another bite till it eventually cleared me as I helplessly watched..

I am trying to understand how the tractor would lurch, pause, lurch. It sounds as if the solenoid was not shorted and something else with a time delay was triggering the solenoid. Anyone understand what was going on circuit wise?

 

[chad22]

Glad you're going to be okay. This does indeed makes us think. And I'll be sure to be more cautious.

Chad

 

[Garandman]

You can rant on all day about what I've said. I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that serious accidents like the one in this thread ARE avoidable. Being tired is the first thing that tells me an accident is more likely to happen. That fact is a prerequisite to failure when dealing with machinery. The OP has several times said he was aware of what could happen and yet, probably because he was tired, ignored the red flags and went ahead with the repair.

"Have you no sense of decency, sir?'
Joseph N. Walsh

 

[Coyote machine]

"Have you no sense of decency, sir?'
Joseph N. Walsh

Huh?!:confused2:

 

[Coyote machine]

I am trying to understand how the tractor would lurch, pause, lurch. It sounds as if the solenoid was not shorted and something else with a time delay was triggering the solenoid. Anyone understand what was going on circuit wise?

I'll stab at an answer. Starter solenoid was energized by wrench shorting to ground. Starter engaged flywheel and turned engine over while transmission followed engine, since tractor was in gear. Tractor hits fence and reaction to hitting fence allows inertia to push tractor backward. Starter's Bendix never releases from flywheel as engine did not start, which would have disengaged Bendix gear, thus repetitive motion until something changed the sequence- OP moving stick from forward gear to reverse....

 

[yelbike]

"Have you no sense of decency, sir?'
Joseph N. Walsh

The true answer is he is an argumentative poster, always choosing be a devils advocate. I'm sure he has ended up on many other members ignore list. If you want to waste your time go through his post history.

 

[CobyRupert]

Huh?!:confused2:

Let me try to explain: Your self-righteousness offends a lot of people. Of course accidents are preventable. That's not the point. This is not the time or place to insult someone, saying they don't have "the bare minimum of common sense" after they've had a serious life-threatening accident. That is offensive. In addition you wish ("should get" -how else to read?) that other are injured, killed or maimed. That too is offensive. Let me quote you again:

This kind of 'accident' is totally preventable with just the bare minimum of common sense, and safety precautions in place before doing any wrenching....
BTW, those who disconnect seat switches and similar safety devices should get what they deserve when/if things go wrong, and hopefully not end up hurting an innocent bystander in the process.

"Have you no sense of decency?"