Installing 240V Service To Your Shop - Price Breakdowns...

[MossRoad]

I didn't forget anything.
If you didn't tie it at the sub, it's tied at the service. Either way, it's at the same voltage potential... regarding human danger currents....

Its tied at the service and isolated everywhere else so that there's only one return path back to the service. Its the multiple paths that cause people to get electrocuted. They think something is off, and it is not, because the ground is still carrying current.

 

[Sodo]

YIKES!!! I looked at the first picture in "your project"..... that's death waiting to happen. You can't tie neutral to ground in a sub-panel. Well, actually, you "can", but you shouldn't! And $1300 for that? Double Yikes! Didn't read past the first post. Hope it turned out for you.

I was not aware of the certain death aspect, sorry to give anyone a scare, but with TBN help got it all straightened out by page 5

Good luck getting pricing estimates looks like we're already at page7 with only one wild guess.

 

[MossRoad]

I was not aware of the certain death aspect, sorry to give anyone a scare, but with TBN help got it all straightened out by page 5

Good luck getting pricing estimates looks like we're already at page7 with only one wild guess.

That looks much better. :thumbsup: I can sleep easy now.

 

[DarkBlack]

Its tied at the service and isolated everywhere else so that there's only one return path back to the service. Its the multiple paths that cause people to get electrocuted. They think something is off, and it is not, because the ground is still carrying current.

Not picking on you, but what you wrote is wrong, and actually makes no sense at all.
The NEC deciding to establish long ago that they didn't want neutral bonded to ground at a subpanel, has nothing remotely related to the intent of your post.

 

[buickanddeere]

DB. Just accept that running neutral current through the ground system is a problem.

 

[buickanddeere]

.

Still several things wrong here.

There is more than one wire being run through a box connector. There is an open knock out on the top of the panel. The box is hanging on one screw. 30 amp is too light for the average welder. Any serious home welder requires a 50 amp plug, cable and breaker. The supply cable to that pony panel is several steps undersized being #12 or #10 by the looks of it. Should be #6 or #4 depending on the wire insulation temperature rating. To your credit it appears that the neutral to ground bond screw has at least been backed out. Cables are supposed to be supported within in 6" of the box instead of hanging free air.

Sorry Bud but your wiring job is sub standard, illegal and dangerous to life, limb and property.

 

[DarkBlack]

DB. Just accept that running neutral current through the ground system is a problem.

Amuse me. Here's a test. Give me scenario of a fatal situation caused directly by the sub's N being tied to gnd.
I know It's not code, so you can skip that part.

 

[muddstopper]

Amuse me. Here's a test. Give me scenario of a fatal situation caused directly by the sub's N being tied to gnd.
I know It's not code, so you can skip that part.

I dont know if this is the scenario you are asking for, but when My welder blew one of the 60amp fuses needed for 240v in my panel, as long as the switch of the welder was on, my shop lights would burn. Turn off the welder and the shop lights went out. Lights burned because ground was carrying current. With fuse removed and welder switch on, light would burn. I suspect that power was backfeeding thru ground since that is the only common source for power. For a circuit to remain energized with the obvious power leg disconnected, then the only reasonable power source left would have to be the neutral side carrying current and the ground/bond wire acting as the ground. I know this didnt cause a lethal incident, I am still here typing, but I can see a condition for serious shock. My shop is getting a rewireing job as soon as I can get to it.

 

[DarkBlack]

No That's not it.
N tied to gnd at the sub had nothing to do with that situation, but for your safety, you really should replace those independent fuses with a proper 2 pole breaker.

 

[MossRoad]

Not picking on you, but what you wrote is wrong, and actually makes no sense at all.
The NEC deciding to establish long ago that they didn't want neutral bonded to ground at a subpanel, has nothing remotely related to the intent of your post.

Please show me a quote where I said you should bond neutral to ground at a sub panel. Please.