Custom hydraulic backhoe thumb

[dfkrug]

I'm not so sure about "out of harms way" however. Anything mounted on the boom,
especially on the underside, has a risk of being damaged. Why not mount the valve under the operator's station and
just run 1/4" hose to the cylinder from there? That would also eliminate the need to run electrical wires out to the
boom.

No installation is going to be completely out of harm's way, IT.

If you mount the valve close to the operator's station, then the wire is more protected, yes, but now you have
hoses to deal with. They must go along the boom and dipper to the cylinder, exposing THEM to damage.
AND, if you use 1/4" hoses they will have to be at least 8' long each, resulting in more flow restriction. Of
course, you could make hardlines....

I was able to run my wires thru the boom, so they have minimal exposure. There is no room to run more
hoses thru the boom.

Once I decided to put the valve near the bucket/thumb cylinders, I had a choice of mounting it to the
bkt cyl, on the thumb cyl, or side of the dipper. I went with the thumb cyl because
my applications (deep in the woods here) put the valve at lower risk. Others may have less tree branches
to deal with.

 

[bumperm]

Looks nicely installed. I'm not so sure about "out of harms way" however. Anything mounted on the boom, especially on the underside, has a risk of being damaged. Why not mount the valve under the operator's station and just run 1/4" hose to the cylinder from there? That would also eliminate the need to run electrical wires out to the boom.

I've never smacked the tractor side (underside) of the dipper stick against anything, though I guess there's always a first time :c(.

I thought (briefly) about doing it the way you suggest, but then figured it would be easier to run one little wire out the boom than two hoses. I was going to have to run wire to the backhoe anyway (used Powerlet plug and jack). One of the advantages of using the solenoid valve is it's relatively small size and ease of plumbing, doing it out at the dipper is a lot easier on the BH77 with it's limited space for running new hoses the further outboard of the tractor you go.

To AVC8130, my smaller hoe doesn't have any hard tubing on the cylinders. I replaced the 90's on the curl cylinder with T's, then ran the new hoses (an 18" and a 24" IIRC) in a loose "S" config, the top one running less than half way down the curl cylinder before bending back toward the valve on the thumb cylinder. Everything works full stroke with no conflicts. I did put anti-chafe sleeve on anything than might ever rub.

bumper

 

[dfkrug]

I don't really know what happens long term when you run a valve at 3 times it's rated flow rate (your machine isn't
quite this dramatic of a difference). Since I found the SV10 so easily on Ebay I am not even going to worry about it.

If those valves are the correct function, then try them. When I was looking, most of the solenoid valves on eBay
required a manifold or were poppet-type valves, not spool-type. The L45 is a bigger CUT and has bigger cyls,
allowing for more mounting space.

I like that custom hardline you made.

 

[IslandTractor]

No installation is going to be completely out of harm's way, IT.

If you mount the valve close to the operator's station, then the wire is more protected, yes, but now you have
hoses to deal with. They must go along the boom and dipper to the cylinder, exposing THEM to damage.
AND, if you use 1/4" hoses they will have to be at least 8' long each, resulting in more flow restriction. Of
course, you could make hardlines....

I was able to run my wires thru the boom, so they have minimal exposure. There is no room to run more
hoses thru the boom.

Once I decided to put the valve near the bucket/thumb cylinders, I had a choice of mounting it to the
bkt cyl as BUMPER does, or the inside or side of the dipper. I went with the inside of the dipper because
my applications (deep in the woods here) put the valve at lower risk. Others may have less tree branches
to deal with.

I appreciate that any installation will have pros and cons. I guess the vision of that valve sitting on top of the cylinder (or even under the dipper stick) makes me worry about inadvertently bumping it on a branch or stump when reaching out or swinging near brush. I agree that hoses are also a vulnerability but having already had to replace a BH hose that got busted by snagging in brush, the replacement of such a hose is pretty easy compared to potentially damaging a diverter valve. On the other hand, hoses aren't particularly cheap either. I think I would probably choose the location you did over bumperm's mounting just because I presume it would be a bit closer to the main boom/dipper "elbow" and less proud so as to be a bit less likely to snag something. It might be overkill but as long as one is mounting to that location it would be possible to fabricate a little cage for it to add a bit more protection.

Easy for me to critique at this stage as I haven't tackled the job yet myself. Thanks to both you and bumperm for blazing the trail and showing us where the potholes are.

 

[dfkrug]

I guess the vision of that valve sitting on top of the cylinder (or even under the dipper
stick) makes me worry about inadvertently bumping it on a branch or stump when reaching out or swinging near brush.
I agree that hoses are also a vulnerability but having already had to replace a BH hose that got busted by snagging in
brush, the replacement of such a hose is pretty easy compared to potentially damaging a diverter valve.

You are right to be concerned.

Full disclosure here: I did snag one of my lines in my many hours of use. It was one of the 2 that goes around the
side of the dipper. I was thinking of making a guard plate for that area.....hardlines would not work there since
the hoses have to move a bit with the cylinder action.

As for the costs, you WILL pay more for a longer hose if you have to rush down to the hyd shop. More than the
50-odd clams that the valves go for.

BTW, I used another Hydraforce SV spool valve for my 4-in-1 bucket. I did not want more hoses on that boom, either.

 

[bumperm]

I think I would probably choose the location you did over bumperm's mounting just because I presume it would be a bit closer to the main boom/dipper "elbow" and less proud so as to be a bit less likely to snag something. It might be overkill but as long as one is mounting to that location it would be possible to fabricate a little cage for it to add a bit more protection. .

Oops! This being one of those "forrest for the trees" things. dfkrug's valve is rotated 180 degrees on the upper cylinder port from mine to move it higher relative to the dipper stick. There's plenty of room to move mine to a similar position, I just didn't think of it. To do that, I have only to rotate the valve fitting to the cylinder port by 180* and then flip the valve body 180* so the hose and wire exit on the same side as now. Don't know that a cage is truly necessary, if it is needed, then it would stand to reason that the upper hydraulic fitting before adding the valve, if not located on the side of the thumb cylinder, would need similar protection. At least in my case, I don't think it does as I have never had anything impact my hoe there.

bumper

 

[BukitCase]

You guys are lucky - I was looking at my Case 580B today, want a thumb on it before next year - unfortunately, I may end up running new hard lines out the boom (hoses where necessary) because Case really buried anything that could snag.

Bucket curl connections are BETWEEN the cylinder and the boom, with access holes in the boom for the hoses to dive into and -12 JIC's - absolutely no room to play with those connections. Here's a pic from a few years ago when I re-hosed the hoe.



Oh well, if it was too easy it wouldn't be as much fun ...Steve

 

[dfkrug]

unfortunately, I may end up running new hard lines out the boom (hoses where necessary)
because Case really buried anything that could snag.

Yeah, industrial equipment is a lot harder to work on, but they go thru h3ll.

The guy who did the major excavation for my house had a Case 580 with over 30,000 hr on it.

 

[bumperm]

You guys are lucky - I was looking at my Case 580B today, want a thumb on it before next year - unfortunately, I may end up running new hard lines out the boom (hoses where necessary) because Case really buried anything that could snag.

Bucket curl connections are BETWEEN the cylinder and the boom, with access holes in the boom for the hoses to dive into and -12 JIC's - absolutely no room to play with those connections. Here's a pic from a few years ago when I re-hosed the hoe.

View attachment 395174

Oh well, if it was too easy it wouldn't be as much fun ...Steve

Agree, it's tight. But this T connection may work I'd think: SAE 37° (JIC) Swivel Nut Run Tee

6602-12-12-12

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/v/vspfiles/photos/6602-1.jpg

This would move the existing hose end fitting towards the hole in the boom, the T fitting going between it and they cylinder to provide perpendicular JIC males for the new hoses to connect, and exit parallel to the cylinder.

bumper

 

[BukitCase]

Guys, I may complain but I'm too stubborn to give this up without a serious fight - before I bought that 580 I was looking for a used Kubota, found the 580 and at first wondered why anybody'd want one - light on the front end for good downpressure backdragging (figured that one out), older ones you could take off the hoe and replace with a HERKY 3 point with both float and power down (got one, along with a Gannon box) - suffice to say, that's now ANOTHER thing they'll hafta pry out of my cold dead hands :thumbsup:

Bumper, I'll have to check out that run tee plan, thanks for that - also, I've been collecting tons of pix of any and all 580's from CK's up to L's, and noticed a few today that the curl cylinder is in upside down - that would put those inaccessible JIC's on TOP, and they would just clear the back end of the knuckle cap.

Downside is the hosing could get messy, gotta look at that more when I don't get a mouthful of rain

DF, after seeing how slick your "timeshare" is, I jumped the gun and ordered a pair of those Hydraforce valves, which may have been a mistake since the ones on e-pay appear to (maybe) be a -6 SAE instead of an 8 or 10.

NO biggee though, I'll find something they'll be good for - I'm down to only 25-30 projects for this winter anyway, wouldn't wanna get bored :laughing:

Now, back to your original program ...Steve