Grid-tied solar

[dave1949]

The reason I am thinking of solar for this is:
I do not have power on the property.(I need to get easements from neighbors and $4000 to install.)
I also need to have a well drilled (another $4000 - $4500) and I thought since there is no power available, I would go with a solar set up for the well and the camper when we are there. I have a 12' x 16' shed where I would mount the solar on the roof and store the batteries.

I think you are a good candidate for an off-grid system sometime in the future if you plan to live or spend more time there. Even if you had an off-grid system in the future you would still want and likely need a generator. Let's say you have a component failure in your solar system; you would still need something to run your well pump/frig/etc. while diagnosing the problem and waiting for parts. A portable generator is a good fit for that purpose now and later. It's money you would spend anyways with or without a solar system--just change the order of what and when.

If you are planning on a future off-grid system then select the well pump model with that in mind, plus any other appliances you buy. It is a lot cheaper to conserve electricity through good choices than to buy solar generating power.

As recently as five years ago off-grid homes typically off-loaded a lot of power requirements to propane and wood. Propane refrigerators, ovens, cooktops, clothes dryers, water heaters, etc. With current solar pv prices and the energy efficiency improvements in standard appliances that is no longer necessary with the possible exception of ovens and cooktops; I think propane still makes sense there. Even heating and cooling a properly insulated home is within solar pv's reach using high efficiency mini split units or other heat pump technology.

Just food for thought.

 

[JPRambo]

I have a 5500 watt generator I bought after hurricane Charlie went through town in 2004 (I run it every couple of months). But I usually borrow a 3500 watt from work (it fits into the camper door for travel) both will run the camper(mostly propane).
The wife likes to cook with gas and the W/H was propane 'til it went on a holiday weekend and I could not get one installed quickly. I put in an electric one I got from the big orange box store. The dryer is electric but the house is plumbed for gas if it should it go out. I would like to be off the grid or grid tied solar in my retirement years if possible. I have 7 acres to retire to and plan to heat with wood in a smaller well insulated home.

 

[dave1949]

I have a 5500 watt generator I bought after hurricane Charlie went through town in 2004 (I run it every couple of months). But I usually borrow a 3500 watt from work (it fits into the camper door for travel) both will run the camper(mostly propane).
The wife likes to cook with gas and the W/H was propane 'til it went on a holiday weekend and I could not get one installed quickly. I put in an electric one I got from the big orange box store. The dryer is electric but the house is plumbed for gas if it should it go out. I would like to be off the grid or grid tied solar in my retirement years if possible. I have 7 acres to retire to and plan to heat with wood in a smaller well insulated home.

If retirement is five or more years away, it's possible that by waiting until you retire before building a solar system you would really benefit from some of the panel and battery research in the pipeline now. In five years solar systems won't be any more expensive than now, they have a good chance of being less expensive later. Wish I had a crystal ball.

Two things are holding back solar power (for people living in areas with good solar potential):
Gas and oil well fracking is changing the energy landscape. It will take some years to get past that but it won't be half as long as the 100 years the marketing cheerleaders say. As of now it is giving utilities the ability to make cheap power while flying under the environmental radar. I don't think that will last more than another decade.

The current revenue structure of electric utilities and power grid operators is not set up to be compatible with grid-tied systems. They would go broke if solar power saturated their market areas. We know they won't be going broke, so as solar installations increase, utility pricing strategies will change--they have already begun that process. They will have to position their pricing below off-grid costs, low enough to keep grid-tied customers, or they will go the way of phone land lines; many people will just cut the cord.

An off-grid system at a reasonable cost would completely sidestep the utility issues--for you personally at least. Better and/or cheaper batteries would make a huge market difference today if they were available.

You have generators now, so you are set with that. I just don't see any advantage to you in your situation to do a solar system at your retirement location now.

 

[dave1949]

The nano material engineering is really beginning to take off.

New solar power material converts 90 percent of captured light into heat -- ScienceDaily
A multidisciplinary engineering team at the University of California, San Diego developed a new nanoparticle-based material for concentrating solar power plants designed to absorb and convert to heat more than 90 percent of the sunlight it captures. The new material can also withstand temperatures greater than 700 degrees Celsius and survive many years outdoors in spite of exposure to air and humidity. Their work, funded by the U.S. Department of Energy's SunShot program, was published recently in two separate articles in the journal Nano Energy.
....
Modeled after President Kennedy's moon landing program that inspired widespread interest in science and space exploration, then-Energy Secretary Steven P. Chu launched the Sunshot Initiative in 2010 with the goal of making solar power cost competitive with other means of producing electricity by 2020.


The DOE SunShot web site:
SunShot Initiative | Department of Energy

The SunShot Initiative drives research, manufacturing, and market solutions to make the abundant solar energy resources in the United States more affordable and accessible for Americans.

Since the SunShot Initiative was announced in February 2011, the office has funded more than 350 projects in the following areas:

Photovoltaics (PV)
Concentrating solar power (CSP)
Balance of systems costs (soft costs)
Systems integration
Technology to market.



A nano cavity based solar-thermophotovoltaic (STPV) collector which uses more of the light spectrum and is efficient at wide light angles:
How to make a 'perfect' solar absorber -- ScienceDaily

 

[dave1949]

The October, 2014 results.

Just a bit above the model, about 1/2 of a sunny day for my system in October.

Month--NREL Model (AC kWh)--2012 Actual---2013 Actual---2104 Actual

Jan.----388----------------------NA--------------440-------------360
Feb.----412----------------------NA--------------375-------------446
Mar.----509----------------------NA--------------462-------------577
Apr.----374----------------------NA--------------487-------------525
May----353----------------------NA--------------375-------------361
Jun.----308----------------------NA--------------379-------------390
Jul.-----341----------------------NA--------------377-------------395
Aug.----383----------------------461-------------470------------453
Sep.----394----------------------481-------------476------------489
Oct.----369----------------------378-------------453-------------380
Nov.----283----------------------400-------------414
Dec.----331----------------------297-------------278

 

[300UGUY]

No experience with solar here, but I was watching a interview with a exec of a solar company on CNBC, he said that within 10 years, the cost per Kw for solar would be down to 4c. Cheaper than natural gas or coal! You think it was just BS?

 

[dave1949]

No experience with solar here, but I was watching a interview with a exec of a solar company on CNBC, he said that within 10 years, the cost per Kw for solar would be down to 4c. Cheaper than natural gas or coal! You think it was just BS?

Could happen. A lot depends on if and how quickly some of the new technology makes it to market. Solar is competitive with coal using clean air treatment now. Any reasonable storage/battery advances will turn the market on its head in a short time.

Currently solar pv panels retail for around $1 per watt. At present efficiencies the general ratio of installed wattage to output watt hours is 1:1 over a years time. For example a 5kW system produces about 5kWh in a year--give or take. No magic in the 1:1 ratio, just a coincidence of current technology used under typical conditions.

So, given a useful service life of 20 years, an installed watt produces 20 watts hours over it's lifetime (one watt hour per year). $1/watt divided by 20 watt hours = 5 cents/watt hour average lifetime cost. This does not include supporting hardware such as the inverter or installation charges.

 

[300UGUY]

I think he was talking retail. Right now, my cost is 14c / kw

 

[Redneck in training]

Our DIY built system produces 1kWh for 8.2 cents before taking into acount tax incentives or 5.8 cents after tax incentives. It is actually better because my calculations don't take into account mortgage interest tax deduction and investement gain on tax rebate investment. The construction was financed by a second mortgage with 3.7% interest.

 

[Jim Nelson]

We got our 3kw system installed in late June of this year and are in the net metering system.We used the air conditioning as needed to stay comfortable and quite a bit more than in previous years when our bill would be near $300 per month.Through Sept.the total accumulated bill grew to $63 and change.We didn't use any ac in Oct. and the accumulated bill dropped to $33 and change which seemed like a lot to me.I'm wondering if everyone has this big of swing or maybe there is an accounting error that will be corrected later.