Favorite Diesel Fuel Additives

[ksluy]

I wander what diesel additives do to a tier 4 engine? High pressure injectors and a particulate filter.

 

[jd870]

I buy my fuel in a five gallon can from local service stations and i use power service products.

 

[rswyan]

1) Thanks for the update on FedEx operations. I keep forgetting about "outsourcing" in business these days.

Fred would outsource all of it if he could ...

2) I would still rely on the engine manufacturers both to state maintenance requirements (fuel type) and to work with fuel suppliers (big oil) to insure that fuel for sale equals the fuel needed.

Yeah ... trust big oil to do the right thing ...

Not exactly on the top of my trust-without-verification list ... but different strokes and all that ...

Tell ya what ... give 'em (big oil) a holler and see what they say about getting that cetane number up to 50 ... you know: like is available in Europe ...

Understood that there are extreme condition exceptions but in general I have a tough time imagining that fueling up anywhere on US 70, 80 or 90 across the country is going to cause any harm to an engine.

I don't know that it "causes harm" per se (maybe to one's wallet for a roadside service call to get "ungelled" :laughing ... but it certainly can be rather inconvenient ...

In terms of engine damage, a stuck injector is another matter however.

3) Firemanmike's chart shows that some additives actually decrease ?lubricity. How do you know that you are not harming your engine by added something that increases fuel mileage by a few percent?

Because I'm not using one of the ones that decrease lubricity.

That and with 432,000+ miles on the clock, it certainly doesn't seem any worse for wear.

4) I usually use straight diesel from a truckstop in my tractor.

I dunno but I'll bet you're probably largely safe in terms of gelling, assuming that proximity to large bodies of water is a moderating influence in terms of low temps.

I used to add a bit of 2 stroke oil based on what someone on TBN said a few years ago. Don't do that consistently anymore.

Yup ... did that myself for a while ... the SuperTech stuff from Wally World.

5) I haven't done the cost/benefit calculations on cetane additives. A two or three percent increase in mileage is certainly something to consider but only if that benefit is not eaten up by the cost of the additive.

What about an 8% increase ?

For me, that's roughly a free tank's worth of mileage every ten tanks of fuel.

Costs me around $100 to fill the tank with fuel (versus $20 or less for a bottle of PS ... which will treat 10 tanks worth ...)

BTW - where are you getting that two or three percent number from ?

6) You are correct, I don't hang out in truckstops anymore and have never seen gallon plus size jugs of fuel additives that I would imagine big rig guys must go through on a regular basis.

I dunno that I have seen "gallon plus size" jugs at truckstops either ... could be a consumer preference thing ...

An 80 ounce jug of PS White (less than a gallon) will treat 250 gallons of fuel down to 0F ... below 0F Power Service recommends double the concentration (80 oz treats 125 gallons)

 

[IslandTractor]

Fred would outsource all of it if he could ...


Yeah ... trust big oil to do the right thing ...

Not exactly on the top of my trust-without-verification list ... but different strokes and all that ...

Tell ya what ... give 'em (big oil) a holler and see what they say about getting that cetane number up to 50 ... you know: like is available in Europe ...


I don't know that it "causes harm" per se (maybe to one's wallet for a roadside service call to get "ungelled" :laughing ... but it certainly can be rather inconvenient ...

In terms of engine damage, a stuck injector is another matter however.


Because I'm not using one of the ones that decrease lubricity.

That and with 432,000+ miles on the clock, it certainly doesn't seem any worse for wear.


I dunno but I'll bet you're probably largely safe in terms of gelling, assuming that proximity to large bodies of water is a moderating influence in terms of low temps.


Yup ... did that myself for a while ... the SuperTech stuff from Wally World.


What about an 8% increase ?

For me, that's roughly a free tank's worth of mileage every ten tanks of fuel.

Costs me around $100 to fill the tank with fuel (versus $20 or less for a bottle of PS ... which will treat 10 tanks worth ...)

BTW - where are you getting that two or three percent number from ?


I dunno that I have seen "gallon plus size" jugs at truckstops either ... could be a consumer preference thing ...

An 80 ounce jug of PS White (less than a gallon) will treat 250 gallons of fuel down to 0F ... below 0F Power Service recommends double the concentration (80 oz treats 125 gallons)

I don't know exactly where I saw the 2-3% increase figure. However, in looking for that reference I came across the following: https://cumminsengines.com/uploads/docs/cummins_secrets_of_better_fuel_economy.pdf As you will see, this is a fairly comprehensive look at MPG for commercial trucks (focus on big rigs) and what I find remarkable is the absence of even a mention of fuel additives. They even talk about the effect of light rain and old vs new tires etc etc on MPG but in the dozen or so factors they discuss, fuel additives are not even mentioned. Why would Cummins, in a document intended to help professional truckers maximize MPG, fail to discuss fuel additives???

 

[rswyan]

I don't know exactly where I saw the 2-3% increase figure.

Ok.

However, in looking for that reference I came across the following: https://cumminsengines.com/uploads/docs/cummins_secrets_of_better_fuel_economy.pdf As you will see, this is a fairly comprehensive look at MPG for commercial trucks (focus on big rigs) and what I find remarkable is the absence of even a mention of fuel additives. They even talk about the effect of light rain and old vs new tires etc etc on MPG but in the dozen or so factors they discuss, fuel additives are not even mentioned.

You should familiarize yourself with Cummins historical position on fuel additives generally ...

Why would Cummins, in a document intended to help professional truckers maximize MPG, fail to discuss fuel additives???

Could be a lot of different reasons ... possibilities are nearly endless.

 

[IslandTractor]

Ok.


You should familiarize yourself with Cummins historical position on fuel additives generally ...


Could be a lot of different reasons ... possibilities are nearly endless.

Just read that BMW actually has a "do not use additives" label on their diesel car gas caps. Haven't verified that but did see a statement from BMW that basically said "we don't know that they don't harm the engine so just use regular fuel from the pump".

I'm aware that many of you guys who use the additives are very happy with them but I have a hard time with the lack of objective data in comparative trials. It just seems to be too big an issue to be decided upon anecdotal reviews and the absence of hard data from independent labs is just suspicious to me. And, I am still wondering if the US Military either uses additives or has a milspec standard for their fuel that is different than what civilians get. The military must have hundreds of thousands of diesel engines and I cannot imagine that they would not study something that increased power or reduced wear or improved efficiency. Too important to leave to guess work or marketing claims.

 

[aczlan]

And, I am still wondering if the US Military either uses additives or has a milspec standard for their fuel that is different than what civilians get. The military must have hundreds of thousands of diesel engines and I cannot imagine that they would not study something that increased power or reduced wear or improved efficiency. Too important to leave to guess work or marketing claims.

They use JP8 in Diesel powered machines and (per Wikipedia) have problems with wear on new engines:

Usage
It was specified in 1990 by the U.S. government as a replacement for government diesel fueled vehicles.
The U.S. Air Force replaced JP-4 with JP-8 completely by the fall of 1996, to use a less flammable, less hazardous fuel for better safety and combat survivability.
The U.S. Navy uses a similar formula, JP-5. JP-5 has an even higher flash point of > 140 °F (60 °C), but also a higher cost.
Apart from powering aircraft, JP-8 is used as a fuel for heaters, stoves,[1][2] tanks,[3] by the U.S. military and its NATO allies as a replacement for diesel fuel in the engines of nearly all tactical ground vehicles and electrical generators, and as a coolant in engines and some other aircraft components. The use of a single fuel greatly simplifies logistics.
JP-8 is formulated with icing inhibitor, corrosion inhibitors, lubricants, and antistatic agents, and less benzene (a carcinogen) and less n-hexane (a neurotoxin) than JP-4. However, it also smells stronger than JP-4. JP-8 has an oily feel to the touch, while JP-4 feels more like a solvent.
Problems
When used in highly supercharged diesel engines with the corresponding low compression ratio of about only 14:1 or below, JP-8 causes troubles during cold start and idling due to low compression temperatures and subsequent ignition delay because the cetane index is not specified in MIL-DTL-83133G to 40 or higher. Because lubricity to the BOCLE method is not specified in MIL-DTL-83133G, modern common-rail diesel engines can experience wear problems in high-pressure fuel pumps and injectors. Another problem in diesel engines can be increased wear to exhaust valve seats in the cylinder heads, because a minimum content of sulfur is not specified in MIL-DTL-83133G. Sulfur in fuel normally contributes to a build-up of soot layers on these valve seats. According to the notes in this standard, it is intended to include a cetane index value in one of the next releases.

Sounds almost like JP8 is closer to #1 Diesel or Kerosene than #2 ULSD.

Aaron Z

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks. Now I'm really confused. Is JP4 regular diesel or is civilian ULSD not even given a JP number?

 

[buickanddeere]

Duh.................JP8 and Jet A-1 is kerosene.............
#1 diesel is de-waxed #2 diesel.
Kerosene does not have wax in it.
Why do some folk fuss and fight with #2 diesel and snake oil additives in the dead of winter instead of using winter diesel in the winter ?

 

[aczlan]

Thanks. Now I'm really confused. Is JP4 regular diesel or is civilian ULSD not even given a JP number?

Civilian ULSD is not given a JP number. It might be on the next go round of specs as the current JP8 apparently does not list minimum Cetane or Lubricity requirements.

Aaron Z