Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas.

   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #1  

blakester

Silver Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2013
Messages
114
So i'm taking some time this summer to build myself a foliar sprayer for my 4 acre vineyard. I have a couple of ideas and wanted to get your guys take on it. The sprayer builds I have seen on here are not really what I'm looking for but have provided some good inspiration. My basic concept is to make it a tow behind using a 50 Gal plastic drum, and separately have an assembly connected to the three point that is essentially a tower with the nozzles on it. My thought to do it this way is so that I can have a good capacity without worrying about tractor stability. I have a kubota b3220 so it's a med size tractor and I have some areas that are steep vertically and have a bit of a side slope, nothing to worry about normally but i want to keep it safe. I was also planning on using a roller pto pump to keep the design simple and economical. 20 gal per min - 100 psi should be enough capacity, probably 8-10 spray nozzles. Any thoughts you guys might have would be great. I will be uploading some basic design images to better show what I'm thinking.
Cheers everyone.
 
   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #2  
if you are needing to get the spray to just fall down and coat the exterior that is one thing, but if you need to do more of a covering of entire vines and under leafs, and on top of leafs. then i would guess, you might want a few extra nozzles. more nozzles means more GPM, and/or the spray heads will need to be set closer to the fence rows/vines rows. one set (left side spraying down wards), another set of nozzles (left side spraying upwards), then same on right side. when i say upwards/downwards, i mean more of an angle. for the spray pattern of the nozzles to hit tops and bottoms of the leafs and vines.

pending on what you are spraying, either a mist, to more of a rain droplets, along with how much drifting of chemicals you want. if you point the nozzles straight out (perpendicular) to tractor, then a lot of the chemicals may blow straight through the vines and onto the other side of the fence row / vine row. if you angle the nozzles forward, you will more likely take a chemical bath, if you aim them say 45 degrees behind you. then you may end up spraying just the outside of the leafs, and not get a good injection of chemicals deeper into were the vines are.

==================
you will most likely want to stop the spray as you reach end of row, and then start the spray backup as you enter a new row.
---ability to turn off left or right side spray nozzles, for outside rows, or getting the ends.
---a way to use roller pump to fully "mix" both chemicals and water together. before applying
---a way to drain and clean the 50 gallon drum.
---a filter between pump and tank, to keep stuff from damaging pump. (either make it a dry chemical that needs to be mixed first to other). to a filter to keep small stuff out from clogging up nozzles.
---guessing upper set of nozzles (high up nozzles) abilty to turn some of them off, for vines/rows that are shorter vs others.
---replaceable nozzles / spray heads. ((some have a miniature final filter in the nozzles / spray heads.)) to keep nozzles from clogging up, same nozzles that i have seen allow one to replace a spray nozzle with a "cap" to turn off the spray head/nozzle.
---a way to keep air from creating a "air lock in the system", and a way to fully drain all the hoses/pipes of chemicals/water.
--- hard plastic pipe (pvc, abs) i do not recommend the hard piping, it will vibrate and crack, instead make sure to use metal piping, or use of rubber or like hoses only.

=================
---easy to reach valves (1/4 turn valves) only takes 1/4 turn of handle to either close or fully open valves. might be suggested. or use of 12v electrical valves.
---valve to mix chemicals, valves for spray nozzles. these 2 valves work in tandem with each other, controlling amount of GPM/pressure going to spray heads/nozzles
---((individual valves each spray nozzle or a set of nozzles)), by default you should try to keep same amount and type of fittings/hose length between each spray head/nozzle. if you start putting longer pieces of hoses here or there with shorter ones. the shorter length hose nozzles are more likely to get more GPM/pressure vs the nozzles with longer hoses on them.
---lower nozzles will see more GPM/pressure than higher placed nozzles as well.
---you can attempt to overcome some of the difference with more Pressure / GPM, within reason.

---if you go with 12v electrical valves, you have more of an option (at a price), to use a hand wand / hand gun spot sprayer setup. 12v sensor open/closes valves as needed to put pressure/GPM to hand gun when ya pull the trigger. 12v electrical pumps generally have sensor built directly into pump, for on demand. but a roller pump setup does not.

=================
you can create a "spray bar" using a piece of pipe and drilling say 1/32" to 1/16" hole into it to create a spray bar. and then mount the spray bar inside the drum, this can aid in cleaning drum out and also mixing chemicals/water together. a drill press helps here putting holes in a row. take say a 2x4 piece of lumber, and saw out a V in it. to make yourself a pipe holder. if you can not figure out how to get wand to stay put, along with getting an end cap on it. run the entire spray wand clear through drum. (bulkhead on each side of drum), and then place end cap on one side, and hose/piping on the other side (on outside of the drum).
--to note it, this is not ment to replace actual spray heads/nozzles, but only for inside the drum, to help clean and/or mix chemicals/water.

=================
you can use electrical fittings (water tight seals for pipes), that connect electrical boxes to electrical pipe, ((normally come with a gasket for threaded connection to box (((err drum))), then just get yourself some thread fittings to go onto the bulkhead per say.
---they also make a "beh forget name" it looks like a "rubber pulley" like belts and pulleys. but rubber. ya drill a hole and push this rubber piece into the hole on the drum. and then use a little bit of Vaseline or some other slicker upper, and push pipe through drum. the pipe causes the rubber to expand just enough to make a really tight water proof seal. and being rubber it forms to the curvature of the drum!. www.koiphen.com you should be able to find some suppliers there for this pulley looking rubber piece.

================
2", 3", or 4" shower drain. (for diy showers and like), can be used like a man hole for drums. they generally come with a little rubber gasket / o-ring / washer. that creates a water tight seal.

instead of getting a threaded on cap.... run a short piece of pipe into shower drain. and then take a "dremal" or like a put a small grove into end of pipe. and then slip a rubber 0-ring into the grove with some Vaseline, and then take dremal again, and sand the inside of a end cap a little bit, so it simply slips over the 0-ring and end of pipe. pvc like fittings generally have a "taper to them" so when ya primer/glue them together a tight fit happens. the sanding of the inside removes this taper, electrical fittings generally do not have this taper. but you still may need to do a little bit of sanding on the inside. www.koiphen.com search for "stand pipes" as on/off valves. same basic principle but just used for a man hole / clean out hole per say.

drill i don't know 1/4" hole into top of the end cap, to so air can enter drum while in use. possibly adding a small chain via bolt to end cap. so if it does come off, ya don't loose end cap.

================
the outlet on drum that goes to pumps inlet....
when ya do a sink full of dishes and go and remove the drain plug... as the water begins draining, you end up getting a vortexing / whirl pool of water, and most likely some "sucking noises" as air goes down the drain as well. if you put your hand over the whirl pool or a dish or like. you end up stopping the whirl pool and more so sucking of air!....
---this is what known as "anti vortex", or anti whirlpool, or some sort... basically all they are is a piece of plastic or metal. that sets off say 1/2" or so off the end of pipe coming into the tank. and basically directs the suction around the pipe. vs directly above the end of the pipe. this helps you suck out the last bit of chemicals/water in the tank. vs leaving say a few gallons of stuff in the tank, that you can not get, even if it means sucking in air with the water/chemicals.
---pointing you to www.koiphen.com for "diy bottom drains" that have a dome on them.
---you have a bulkhead or like fitting going through drum, on the outside of the drum, instead of going directly to a metal pipe or hose. put a Tee, (the leg of a T pointing down in this text, connects to the hose or pipe), the other 2 ends of T, one connects to bulkhead, the other gets an end cap. drill a hole into center of end cap, and use some threaded rod, to extend up into drum / tank, were you can use a couple nuts to hold a piece of plastic or metal. just above the pipe end, (inside of the drum), use a couple more nuts, with some silicon to attach to end cap.

alternative... simply attach a "end cap" inside the drum/tank. and drill a bunch of larger holes around the sides of the end cap. this can also act like an anti vortexing like setup. though it may leave a little bit of stuff in the tank.

=================
100's of ways going about something, mix and match what ya think will work for ya!
 
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   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #3  
I don't see any mention of a high-volume fan. That's a critical component for vineyard spraying....
 
   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #4  
if saving money is your objective, you would be doing yourself a favor by buying a used air blast sprayer and cleaning it thoroughly before using in your vineyard. when spraying for powdery mildew, you deed to cover every part of the plant,top and undersides of leaves,the stems, and all of the clusters, not just the outside surface. I wouldn't trust a an under pressurized spray pattern to cover that well. remember, once you get disease in your vineyard,that is when things get real expensive real fast. prevention is much cheaper than the cure. I use a cheaper sprayer for weed control around my vineyard, but I wouldn't ever trust it inside the vineyard.
 
   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #5  
This is what I have. You really need to get both sides of the leaves coated and that's what an airblast sprayer is designed to do. No reason you can't build one. Someone used a backback blower for blowing leaves and a sprayer and combined them. They said it worked fine.
 
   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #6  
googled "vineyard sprayer" wow never realized, all the various setups there are for spayers. and amount of work done with use of high CFM (cubic feet per minute) fans. i can really see some of the setups, causing "mist" from the spray heads/nozzles, getting multi passes as it flows back through the fence row/vine rows.

searching youtube for "vineyard sprayer" *cringes* sweet mercy.... do the various plants and fruits actually hold up and survive the "high velocity wind"?!?!? it looks like a miniature hail storm, with direct blasting of various fans.... is that the reason some of my grapes and various berries have little "spots" on them when i buy them from local stores? from being blasted with miniature water droplets?

all i see is "give it more power" vs using wind currents to a better degree... or am i missing something? and folks just like creating a huge "cloud" of various chemicals/water behind them? and only a very small percentage of chemical/water actually sticking to the leaves and steams and vines themselves....
 
   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #7  
boggen, the pesticides and fungicides used in viticulture are so incredibly expensive, that you can rest assured that the goal of blast spraying is definitely not to have a small percentage sticking to the foliage and fruit.


There are additives in the solution which create very small droplets that stick to their targets. The spray nozzle shape, positioning and the force of the blast all play a role, as well.
 
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   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #8  
why not a recovery system? or rather a vortexting / whirl pool like air currents.... all i see is a pressure washer, with a wide fan spray pattern. were most of the stuff is being lost to everything else around the rows... if it does not hit and touch a given spot in first pass of the nozzles. it is wasted it looks like to me. it is kinda like trying to use a can of spray paint, and trying to get it all covered with a single thick one time pass of the spray paint. it does not happen that way. you normally need to apply a couple passes of spray paint to get a full coverage when painting something. there is not a single difference between a can of spray paint, and sprayers used. exception more spray cans used at a one time errr spray heads/nozzles. but even then i am still only seeing a single pass, that is going to create more of a droplet / runs in paint, vs a very thin fine layer of mist on things.

i guess what i am thinking of is more of a mini containment system. were you have a couple set of different rows of spray heads and row of fans. that blows the mists back and forth across the fence row/vine row, multi times. and in different directions through the row. other words "spray once", route wind direction back and forth a few different times via whirl pooling / vortexing like air currents.

see attach diagram...
air currents.png
TOP VIEWS
A = single vortexing current created. spray heads on each side (red), are not directly across from each other. but are separated... say 4 to 6 feet apart. each set of spray heads also has a "fan"'s more likely multi smaller fans. to create additional air current.
--not much of a recovering system here. simply spins the air through the row

B = same set of spray heads and fans right next to the spray heads, BUT!! a bit more complicated containment system to "route" air flow back through the row a couple times.

C = putting spray heads directly across from each other... this is kinda like 2 cars doing 100MPH in a head on collision. very violent wind currents as they both meet up and crash together. guessing not a very good actual coverage. most gets it but very sparadtic coverage. vs B diagram.

D = currently what i am seeing. no recovery system, no multi passes. the only thing that actually connects with and stays on the leaves and vines, is what is at the very outer edges of the mini chaotic currents as stuff gets blown. leaving a good amount of the rest to disperse else were.

============
B diagram = mini containment system. could be some metal pipe frame, draped with some cheap 6 mil or like plastic. maybe even using some of the various pvc like fittings for custom / diy green houses.
--guessing frame work and plastic would more resemble a long small shed, that you could drive through with a riding lawn mower. and 4 columns (plastic covered) to help direct and create vortexing air currents within the center area.

===========
trail testing... get yourself some cheap box fans. some cheap plastic, some duct tape, and what ever you have laying around to make a duct tape up frame with. and then a couple cans of spray paint. see about using some branches / trimmings that you did, and toss into a pile (long wise) and see how and were the spray paint ends up at.
--err second thought spray paint and electricity don't really mix together to well, there might be a rather large BOOM! and you died. maybe a spot sprayer / hand pump 1 gallon type, and a can of red paint. and see were the paint ends up at.

you don't need super wind of a tornado, but something little bit stronger than a genital breeze, that keeps the chemicals/water suspended within the air, and let the leaves flutter a little bit. let the air currents do the work. vs trying to force the air current (get the bigger tool / what ever out) to get the job done.

a can of spray paint doesn't have a huge amount of air pressure in it. nor do sprayers, granted pending on chemical using, and spray head, you may need extra to atomize and break things down to smallest size possible. but once you get to that point, you do not need to keep adding on the pressure. nor do you need to / want to jet the mist. but simply genitally blow it around. so the smaller particals of stuff do not crash into each other and create larger droplets of rain / runs in paint / droplets coming off of leaves.

=============
or am i completely off my rocker?

to original poster, i am sorry, it seems i took over your thread, it was not meant to be that way.
 
   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #9  
why not a recovery system? or rather a vortexting / whirl pool like air currents.... all i see is a pressure washer, with a wide fan spray pattern. were most of the stuff is being lost to everything else around the rows... if it does not hit and touch a given spot in first pass of the nozzles. it is wasted it looks like to me. it is kinda like trying to use a can of spray paint, and trying to get it all covered with a single thick one time pass of the spray paint. it does not happen that way. you normally need to apply a couple passes of spray paint to get a full coverage when painting something. there is not a single difference between a can of spray paint, and sprayers used. exception more spray cans used at a one time errr spray heads/nozzles. but even then i am still only seeing a single pass, that is going to create more of a droplet / runs in paint, vs a very thin fine layer of mist on things.

i guess what i am thinking of is more of a mini containment system. were you have a couple set of different rows of spray heads and row of fans. that blows the mists back and forth across the fence row/vine row, multi times. and in different directions through the row. other words "spray once", route wind direction back and forth a few different times via whirl pooling / vortexing like air currents.

see attach diagram...
View attachment 399451
TOP VIEWS
A = single vortexing current created. spray heads on each side (red), are not directly across from each other. but are separated... say 4 to 6 feet apart. each set of spray heads also has a "fan"'s more likely multi smaller fans. to create additional air current.
--not much of a recovering system here. simply spins the air through the row

B = same set of spray heads and fans right next to the spray heads, BUT!! a bit more complicated containment system to "route" air flow back through the row a couple times.

C = putting spray heads directly across from each other... this is kinda like 2 cars doing 100MPH in a head on collision. very violent wind currents as they both meet up and crash together. guessing not a very good actual coverage. most gets it but very sparadtic coverage. vs B diagram.

D = currently what i am seeing. no recovery system, no multi passes. the only thing that actually connects with and stays on the leaves and vines, is what is at the very outer edges of the mini chaotic currents as stuff gets blown. leaving a good amount of the rest to disperse else were.

============
B diagram = mini containment system. could be some metal pipe frame, draped with some cheap 6 mil or like plastic. maybe even using some of the various pvc like fittings for custom / diy green houses.
--guessing frame work and plastic would more resemble a long small shed, that you could drive through with a riding lawn mower. and 4 columns (plastic covered) to help direct and create vortexing air currents within the center area.

===========
trail testing... get yourself some cheap box fans. some cheap plastic, some duct tape, and what ever you have laying around to make a duct tape up frame with. and then a couple cans of spray paint. see about using some branches / trimmings that you did, and toss into a pile (long wise) and see how and were the spray paint ends up at.
--err second thought spray paint and electricity don't really mix together to well, there might be a rather large BOOM! and you died. maybe a spot sprayer / hand pump 1 gallon type, and a can of red paint. and see were the paint ends up at.

you don't need super wind of a tornado, but something little bit stronger than a genital breeze, that keeps the chemicals/water suspended within the air, and let the leaves flutter a little bit. let the air currents do the work. vs trying to force the air current (get the bigger tool / what ever out) to get the job done.

a can of spray paint doesn't have a huge amount of air pressure in it. nor do sprayers, granted pending on chemical using, and spray head, you may need extra to atomize and break things down to smallest size possible. but once you get to that point, you do not need to keep adding on the pressure. nor do you need to / want to jet the mist. but simply genitally blow it around. so the smaller particals of stuff do not crash into each other and create larger droplets of rain / runs in paint / droplets coming off of leaves.

=============
or am i completely off my rocker?

to original poster, i am sorry, it seems i took over your thread, it was not meant to be that way.

You're off your rocker. :) Not really, but the whole point of an airblast sprayer is to spray both sides of the leaves in one pass. That airblast gets the leaves moving and flopping around for more complete spray coverage and doesn't hurt the vines at all. It has nothing to do with creating air droplets or anything like that. Its about moving the leaves and about penetrating the canopy to get spray coverage into the center of the vines and to get spray on the fruit (fruit can be hidden behind leaves).

Don't overthink this guys....just get yourself an airblast sprayer or make one.
 
   / Vineyard Foliar sprayer - Design, ideas. #10  
Boggen, you must be an engineer,the way you overthink a fairly simple process.:) They actually do make a sprayer that straddles the row and sprays both sides at once, but that is not cost effective on a four acre vineyard. when I spray my grapes,depending on the growth stage of the vines (4inch laterals in the spring to four foot laterals in mid summer) , I only open the nozzles that will hit the plant. as the plant grows, you open more nozzles, it is an expensive waste to spray over the top of the plants. Having said that, not all of the spray material hits the plant,some hits the ground for sure, but hopefully that falling overspray will combat disease and mildews living on the vineyard floor.
 

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