Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader?

   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader? #61  
So those of you who have operated both a backhoe and a similar sized tractor in comparable conditions of snow and mud, which one has better traction? There's often discussion on here about tire choice and R1s being SOOOO much better in both than R4s which are typically on backhoes. I know the R4s on my 3300 suck in both. Are there R1s with similar load capacity to R4s that could be put on instead? Say for example I found a backhoe that needed tires...could I put something better on without sacrificing load? Most backhoes spend a great deal of time on the road which would be better with R4s but not a concern to me.

Now we are comparing apples/oranges. A backhoe is so much heavier on the rear than any tractor. So if sitting on solid/level ground the backhoe will win the traction match every time. Put the hoe in soft ground or steep slope and you'll immediately become proficient at running the hoe to get yourself out. Very hard to get a backhoe completely stuck. Most times it can dig itself out or assist with the hoe. But you do serious damage to the terrain in the process. I would always stick with R4s on a backhoe for their weight carrying ability. Most operators don't worry much about a hoe's individual tire traction abilities because they know they can get themselves out of most anything.
 
   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader? #62  
Getting a backhoe out is an art in and of itself. I always thought the 3 stick case controls were alot better for this because you can operate the hoe with one hand if you are good and drive the machine with the other hand/steer with the brakes if need be!

The treadle takes a lot of finesse to use and will make a real mess of an inexperienced operator till they get the hang of it. I grew up running an older 580C hoe with a three stick control and I can easily hop in it and go back to slinging dirt. I love watching an operator that is used to using joy sticks hop in a case and watch them get frustrated. What really messes with me though is switching between sae and iso patterns!
 
   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader? #63  
Getting a backhoe out is an art in and of itself. I always thought the 3 stick case controls were alot better for this because you can operate the hoe with one hand if you are good and drive the machine with the other hand/steer with the brakes if need be!

The treadle takes a lot of finesse to use and will make a real mess of an inexperienced operator till they get the hang of it. I grew up running an older 580C hoe with a three stick control and I can easily hop in it and go back to slinging dirt. I love watching an operator that is used to using joy sticks hop in a case and watch them get frustrated. What really messes with me though is switching between sae and iso patterns!

Well stated by an obviously experienced operator. I think the 3 stick Case setup is more accurate doing delicate work than a 2 joystick setup. But minus delicacy I think a 2 stick is a bit faster. The 4 stick/treadle setup is neither.

Foot treadles just don't work for me. Especially when in that stuck situation you described. Lost track of how far I've driven a hoe while pushing or pulling myself along with the bucket. :)
 
   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader?
  • Thread Starter
#64  
3 stick? Treadle pedal? Could you clarify for me?

I've run 2 stick and 4 stick but never heard of either of those
 
   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader?
  • Thread Starter
#65  
Now we are comparing apples/oranges. A backhoe is so much heavier on the rear than any tractor. So if sitting on solid/level ground the backhoe will win the traction match every time. Put the hoe in soft ground or steep slope and you'll immediately become proficient at running the hoe to get yourself out. Very hard to get a backhoe completely stuck. Most times it can dig itself out or assist with the hoe. But you do serious damage to the terrain in the process. I would always stick with R4s on a backhoe for their weight carrying ability. Most operators don't worry much about a hoe's individual tire traction abilities because they know they can get themselves out of most anything.

Apples to oranges up to a point. While yes you can usually dig yourself out, not getting stuck in the first place is better. I can't count the number of times I've seen backhoes with experienced operators all but stuck in 6" of mud, on flat ground. If I'm not worried about using it to its maximum weight capacities, or can find R1s with suitable load rating, why not and improve traction?
 
   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader? #66  
3 stick? Treadle pedal? Could you clarify for me?

I've run 2 stick and 4 stick but never heard of either of those

A 3 stick as I know it is not an extendable hoe and swings with foot treadles. One stick runs wrist (bucket). One stick runs elbow. One stick runs boom lift.

A 4 stick as I know it is an extendable hoe and swings with foot treadles. The fourth stick extends the boom.

I'm talking Case with those descriptions. There may be other variations that others can clarify. My issue with the 4 stick case I ran was the left stick ran the bucket, right stick extended the boom. That was just unnatural to me. Joystick machines, the left stick swings and lifts the boom. Right stick runs the elbow and wrist.
 
   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader? #67  
Apples to oranges up to a point. While yes you can usually dig yourself out, not getting stuck in the first place is better. I can't count the number of times I've seen backhoes with experienced operators all but stuck in 6" of mud, on flat ground. If I'm not worried about using it to its maximum weight capacities, or can find R1s with suitable load rating, why not and improve traction?

This is just my opinion. I don't think you can buy R1s that will stand the stress of the hoe world.
 
   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader? #68  
I understand the stick configurations the same ovrszd. I tend to agree about the joy sticks being faster and less tiresome if your in the machine for long periods. Maybe that old 580 had stiff joints though. I cant recall trying to/ needing to swing, push, and steer at the same time. Usually just oNE or two. If I had to swing and push I think I'd feel better swinging around and facing my work. I don't mind the 4 stick set up as I just run two levers in each hand if need be and that leaves my feet free to add in an additional operation. It is def a mental workout at first!

Thanks for the operator compliment, I have never considered myself on, just a lever jockey.
 
   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader?
  • Thread Starter
#69  
A 3 stick as I know it is not an extendable hoe and swings with foot treadles. One stick runs wrist (bucket). One stick runs elbow. One stick runs boom lift.

A 4 stick as I know it is an extendable hoe and swings with foot treadles. The fourth stick extends the boom.

I'm talking Case with those descriptions. There may be other variations that others can clarify. My issue with the 4 stick case I ran was the left stick ran the bucket, right stick extended the boom. That was just unnatural to me. Joystick machines, the left stick swings and lifts the boom. Right stick runs the elbow and wrist.

Come to think of it, the 4 stick in have run were not extendable. Old POS on a couple different farms quite a while ago. Anything more recent has been joystick but can't remember how the hoe extended. Most of my use of full-size backhoes has been for loader work. Lots of hrs on B21/26, have a BH77 for my 3300 and lots of use of mini-ex of various sizes bit obviously none of them extend.

If I did go down this route, it would have to be joystick with I believe it's the ISO pattern. Left does swing and boom, right does stick and bucket.
 
   / Cab, 12x12 shuttle and self-leveling loader? #70  
A 3 stick as I know it is not an extendable hoe and swings with foot treadles. One stick runs wrist (bucket). One stick runs elbow. One stick runs boom lift.

A 4 stick as I know it is an extendable hoe and swings with foot treadles. The fourth stick extends the boom.

I'm talking Case with those descriptions. There may be other variations that others can clarify. My issue with the 4 stick case I ran was the left stick ran the bucket, right stick extended the boom. That was just unnatural to me. Joystick machines, the left stick swings and lifts the boom. Right stick runs the elbow and wrist.

The Case 3 stick and 4 stick machines have the same layout from left to right. They go bucket, stick, boom, E-hoe, in that order.

Earlier you said: "I think the 3 stick Case setup is more accurate doing delicate work than a 2 joystick setup. But minus delicacy I think a 2 stick is a bit faster. The 4 stick/treadle setup is neither."

That makes no sense at all. If you ignore the far right stick, the 3 stick and 4 stick work exactly the same way.

As far as left hand, right hand for this or that, some folks don't care about it, while others find it an issue. I have a pilot's license, and some folks fret over left seat, right seat, front seat, back seat, which hand is on the wheel or stick, which hand is on the throttle, etc, etc. I've flown every normal combination, and none of them bother me at all, but I do a lot of other stuff ambidextrously (or nearly so) as well.
 

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