Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here

   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here #161  
Looks like you (USA) are getting the toyota hilux after all, with two diesel options and a stick shift
by the looks of things.

Well, the 2015 Tacoma is essentially the same here since 2005, 11 model years. Wow.

I would love to see the return of a small pickup and the announcement of the new 2016 models
(big changes!) will be in a couple of weeks at the Detroit Auto Show.
 
   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here #162  
   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here #163  
AIP Retail Diesel Fuel Prices

They are down to $1.43/L (Au $).

Even if they could get the 3/4ton at that price, most people could not afford the fuel in a modern 2500 for personal use.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here #164  
The heart of the DAILY 4X4 is a 3.0 litre , 16 valve, 150 HP (350 Nm) common rail diesel engine with double overhead cams and a turbocharged intercooler."[/COLOR]

Sounds like youve found your (and my) perfect vehicle.

The Daily 4x4 with a DOKA cab... Its like a mini-Unimog.. Me want!!

DOKA is Sprinter terminology (German) for DOppel KAbine, double cab, or crew cab.
Mini Unimog, indeed the first Unimogs by Boehringer (before MB took over the project) were using passenger car diesels that MB later also used in the commercial van they got out of a Hanomag-Henschel take over. The current Unimogs are real trucks with the 7.2 liter 300hp diesel. That would put them up against the International CXT, yet more work truck, less show truck.

Mercedes also builds 4x4 versions of the Sprinter with DOppel KAbine and 4wd.

It wouldnt be the first time for Dodge being successful by doing something bold in bringing a vehicle from Europe. They basically re-wrote the van industry over here by bringing over the Sprinter under MB. Not to mention the new (seemingly successful) Ram Promaster is basically a Fiat Ducato.
I wasnt aware that the Sprinter rewrote the rules of the industry so much, yet i allways wondered why a van should have a smallblock V8 just to haul its own weight, and eight passengers.

To be a market changer, they wont do that with a 4x4 crew cab van. The problem in the American market is that everybody thinks he needs a half ton pickup weighing 2.5 ton, with 500kg load capacity in the bed. The half ton truck is the most inefficient means of transportation in cargo weight vs. GVW. Here in Europe we have vans like the Fiat Doblo or VW Caddy that have a load capacity of 500kg and weigh less than a midsize family car, and are extremely fuel efficient.

I see that as a bigger market potential. As personal transportation people will keep buying half tonnes for bragging rights, but large fleetowners have accountants that are very good at calculating the lowest cost of ownership for their service van fleets. And then a Euro crossover van cuts the fuel consumption in half.

Here Fiat, because they own Chrysler these vehicles might be the next ones to go on the US market

Doblò Cargo | Fiat Professional (have a look at those payloads !! it puts a 3/4 ton pickup truck to shame !! if you dont tow, its a perfect fleet vehicle)

Scudo Goods Transport | Fiat Professional


And here Volkswagen: Their Crafter is a sibling of the Sprinter, just with VW engines and badges. VW is already widely known in the US market
https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/crafter/

https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/caddy/caddy-panel-van/ The Caddy also has 800kg load capacity. I dont know the capacity of the Caddy Maxi

Then VW has the Transporter in goods transport version, yet they are quite expensive (the only Euro van that is built in Germany, resales prices are high)
https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/transporter/


I see the VW Caddy as having the biggest potential because of the 2 liter TDI. For US conditions it will have to be detuned to 120hp because a flatter torque curve with less top end hp invites drivers to drive at economical rpm yet it has enough torque to cruise comfortably without feeling underpowered.

I hear many Americans complain about fuel prices, and when fuel prices rise towards a Euro level, the need for an economical Euro style service van rises too. It will start with the large fleetowners at e.g. electrical or phone providers, where accountants insensitive to American motoring traditions will do the math, once the general public will start accepting it because of its presence in the streets, family owned companies will do the math too.
 
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   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here #165  
There are well no doka on those new generation vans on sale in the us?

Have a VW T4 2.4D doka and its one practical pickup.
 
   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here
  • Thread Starter
#166  
Base price of $55,900?!??!???? I'm sure that is a loaded out model but you can get a very well equipped 2500 diesel truck for that kind of money.

I think that price is the result of a journalist taking the current euro price and doing a straight conversion to USD. Actual NA retail usually isnt close to a straight conversion. Toyota knows that if this truck is $55k, the same price as a fully loaded Crew Cab Tundra, it wont sell. I suspect the diesel will be a $5k upcharge over the same gas powered Taco. Thats about what VW charges to go from the gas to the diesel Jetta.

I just hope that if this happens, Toyota offers the diesel on SR5 packages and below and not only on the full load.
 
   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here
  • Thread Starter
#167  
DOKA is Sprinter terminology (German) for DOppel KAbine, double cab, or crew cab.
Mini Unimog, indeed the first Unimogs by Boehringer (before MB took over the project) were using passenger car diesels that MB later also used in the commercial van they got out of a Hanomag-Henschel take over. The current Unimogs are real trucks with the 7.2 liter 300hp diesel. That would put them up against the International CXT, yet more work truck, less show truck.

Mercedes also builds 4x4 versions of the Sprinter with DOppel KAbine and 4wd.


I wasnt aware that the Sprinter rewrote the rules of the industry so much, yet i allways wondered why a van should have a smallblock V8 just to haul its own weight, and eight passengers.

To be a market changer, they wont do that with a 4x4 crew cab van. The problem in the American market is that everybody thinks he needs a half ton pickup weighing 2.5 ton, with 500kg load capacity in the bed. The half ton truck is the most inefficient means of transportation in cargo weight vs. GVW. Here in Europe we have vans like the Fiat Doblo or VW Caddy that have a load capacity of 500kg and weigh less than a midsize family car, and are extremely fuel efficient.

I see that as a bigger market potential. As personal transportation people will keep buying half tonnes for bragging rights, but large fleetowners have accountants that are very good at calculating the lowest cost of ownership for their service van fleets. And then a Euro crossover van cuts the fuel consumption in half.

Here Fiat, because they own Chrysler these vehicles might be the next ones to go on the US market

Doblò Cargo | Fiat Professional (have a look at those payloads !! it puts a 3/4 ton pickup truck to shame !! if you dont tow, its a perfect fleet vehicle)

Scudo Goods Transport | Fiat Professional


And here Volkswagen: Their Crafter is a sibling of the Sprinter, just with VW engines and badges. VW is already widely known in the US market
https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/crafter/

https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/caddy/caddy-panel-van/ The Caddy also has 800kg load capacity. I dont know the capacity of the Caddy Maxi

Then VW has the Transporter in goods transport version, yet they are quite expensive (the only Euro van that is built in Germany, resales prices are high)
https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/transporter/


I see the VW Caddy as having the biggest potential because of the 2 liter TDI. For US conditions it will have to be detuned to 120hp because a flatter torque curve with less top end hp invites drivers to drive at economical rpm yet it has enough torque to cruise comfortably without feeling underpowered.

I hear many Americans complain about fuel prices, and when fuel prices rise towards a Euro level, the need for an economical Euro style service van rises too. It will start with the large fleetowners at e.g. electrical or phone providers, where accountants insensitive to American motoring traditions will do the math, once the general public will start accepting it because of its presence in the streets, family owned companies will do the math too.

Thanks for the Mog/Sprinter history, I was pretty familiar already ;)

The international CXT is a joke. There was one around here. Absolutely useless.

There are no 4x4 doka sprinters here. There are 4x4 Cargo and Passenger vans, new this year in Canada.

Ive begun to see some Sprinter cab and chassis setups lately which is pretty nice. Some with open flatbeds on back, a local gas fitter has one with a rear lift gate and pipe racking. MB is missing out though. If they want to get the contractor market here, they should be offering the DOKA cab and chassis with 4x4. 2wd with one passenger seat wont cut it for a lot of crews. Even a 2wd C+C DOKA would be a better seller to crews IMHO.
493_7863634336545.jpg


When I say that Sprinter rewrote the rules, it literally did over here! It basically killed off the traditional Econoline, pick up based van "overnight". I never thought that would happen. Econoline type vans had been a way of life here for 50 years.

Ford "killed" the econoline (although it will live on for a couple years in C+C form) and replaced it with the Transit and Transit Connect. Nissan NV2000 And Chrysler brought the ProMaster (AKA Ducato). All this is a result of Sprinter IMHO.

The Transit Connect is starting to be a seller. Local delivery and trades are buying them. Really handy in the city due to its small size.

The Doblo is supposed to be coming to NA. In its heaviest spec, 2200lb of capacity in a package that size is pretty impressive (600 more than TC).

"The problem in the American market is that everybody thinks he needs a half ton pickup weighing 2.5 ton, with 500kg load capacity in the bed." I agree with this statement.

I dont think VW has any interest in the commercial truck/van game here in NA. Even the consumer targeted Amarok hasnt been launched here yet (after years of speculation it would be), and they would sell a TON of them if they offered it in diesel.

The last VW here that was remotely commercial was the old Transporter Type2's of the mid 80's. The local VW dealer had a Type2 DoKa pritsche that they used for a parts runner. They were very rare even then. In good condition they bring very good money today. I dont think VW remotely care to re-enter the commercial market here, as much as I personally would love to see them offer the current, Caddy, Transporter and Crafter as C+C and panel. Let alone offering the much loved oldschool VW pop up Campervans again.

If anything VW NA seems to be trying to distance themselves from their Euro heritage. The Passat and new Jeta are much more bloated than their previous models. The Jetta particularly is. Its a new model, designed for the American market. It "hurts" me as a previous Jetta owner to see what they did to this car. They made it Fat. The Golf and the Golf Sportwagen are about the only VW Id consider buying now, it still maintains its Euro-ness.

One thing that concerns me is that the price of fuel is as low as its been for 10(?) years around here. First time in recent memory that gas is <$1.00/l, down from $1.40 (maybe even more) last summer. People should be smart enough to realize that this is only a temporary reprieve, but they arent that smart. Last report I heard was that there was already an uptick in sales of larger engined vehicles like SUVs and pickups. This could very well undercut the sales of smaller, fuel efficient cars and trucks just as they are starting to get off the ground, which is very likely the point.

Without getting too political, the Saudis (and OPEC) want to keep us driving those 3/4 ton, V8 behemoths. I think they saw the pendulum swinging towards the US public finally wanting more efficient and alternative fueled vehicles and have dropped prices to drive them out. I dont really see these price drops as a supply and demand thing, I think there is more to it than that. Maybe my tinfoil hat is too tight:laughing:
 
   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here #168  
   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here #169  
There are well no doka on those new generation vans on sale in the us?
I get the impression that they only get the chassis/cab with single cab, to be used with a box on the back for goods distribution transport, and not as a construction crew vehicle with an open bed. Here in Holland carpenters or heavy vehicle service mechanics dont want their power tools in an open bed, because of theft.

At the employer i worked from 2005-2008 we only made open beds for Iveco Daily, Mercedes Sprinter and VW Crafter, for scaffolding, paving and fencing contractors: Those that haul stuff not worth stealing because of the clumsy size or weight versus what it would be worth selling for.

In Australia they do offer the DoKa 4x4 with open bed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJCtjlyL4Bg
 
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   / Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here #170  
Here in Norway it's mostly VW Transporter as DOKA, VW has ca 50% market share on light commercial vehicles, mostly because of 4x4 on all models.
Sprinter almost takes all on the more heavy vans. On pickups it's Hilux and VW Amarok and Nissan Navara on third.
 

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