Dump wagon build

CDN Farm Boy · Jan 13, 2015

bcp said:
And the cylinder is pushing equally as hard on the base mount trying to move it down and forward.

Bruce

Yup. That's why I put it at the front axle and not out in the middle of the reach.

CDN Farm Boy · Jan 13, 2015

dragoneggs said:
You are now into the engineering world of 'statics'. It's actually not that difficult but it is all about 'freebody' diagraming. Static Forces must be equal and opposing. As long as the joint is statically determinate you can calculate the loads. Say you have three members, if you know one of the members, you can calculate the other two based on their relative angles to each other. Break up your force into x and y components and then figure what the other x,y components must be based on their angles. You can do this with a little algebra or maybe look online for a free or cheap statics program for trusses, etc. Been too long for me but it does bring back memories. I wonder if I could still pass a college test? :ashamed:

Sounds about right. Basically since I would have a WAY better design geometrically with the scissor lift and most of the forces are acting between 45 and 90 deg, don't over think my problem? Just build a 'reasonable' amount of beef into the components

farmer2009 · Jan 13, 2015

Nice build. Sounds like your still having trouble getting this figured out. There was a suggestion a couple of pages back I thinks was discredited to fast. The side dump. I know his suggestion was a 3 way dump but.
If you used your current cylinder what kind of angle could you get with it. I think you could move almost vertical as your only trying to dump 6feet not 10 feet. So you might have a long enough cylinder now. Just an idea. Take it for what it's worth.

rswyan · Jan 13, 2015

I believe another suggestion that was made was to add a second cylinder ...

You mentioned that you score the first one reasonable ... any chance of getting a second, identical one at a similar price ?

Would require some reworking of your design to be sure, but that's going to occur anyways it appears ...

rswyan · Jan 13, 2015

CDN Farm Boy said:
Effective, in this case would mean "doing what I'm trying to do"? IOW, how much of the force is actually doing the lift.

Yup, exactly ... you're trying to accomplish some work in a particular direction ... and not all the force you have available is working to that end.

CDN Farm Boy · Jan 13, 2015

farmer2009 said:
Nice build. Sounds like your still having trouble getting this figured out. There was a suggestion a couple of pages back I thinks was discredited to fast. The side dump. I know his suggestion was a 3 way dump but.
If you used your current cylinder what kind of angle could you get with it. I think you could move almost vertical as your only trying to dump 6feet not 10 feet. So you might have a long enough cylinder now. Just an idea. Take it for what it's worth.

I appreciate it but my cyl is 40" retracted. No way can I get that anywhere near vertical under the bed. Also, far too much structural reworking would be required to make it a side dump. While it could be a good option for some, a side dump isn't how I want to be able to use the wagon. That is why it was discredited, not that it is a bad option for some

I'm confident that this scissor lift will solve my problems, and thankful for all the help in understanding it. Since my first design failed as miserably as it did, which is very unlike me, I'm likely over thinking some details so I don't get bit in the a** again.

CDN Farm Boy · Jan 13, 2015

rswyan said:
Yup, exactly ... you're trying to accomplish some work in a particular direction ... and not all the force you have available is working to that end.

That part I'm clear on, thanks in a big part to you. I know I'll now have enough lift with the redesign. I'm just trying to make sure the remaining 8000 lbs is accounted for. Or perhaps I simply don't need to worry about it?

Aside from the fact that the math says the scissor lift will work for me, a BIG plus is that to incorporate it, I don't have to undo anything I already have. Expand my cyl base mount to accept the lower link and add a new bed side mount. The scissor itself can be built on my bench

Xfaxman · Jan 14, 2015

CDN Farm Boy said:
That part I'm clear on, thanks in a big part to you. I know I'll now have enough lift with the redesign. I'm just trying to make sure the remaining 8000 lbs is accounted for. Or perhaps I simply don't need to worry about it?

Aside from the fact that the math says the scissor lift will work for me, a BIG plus is that to incorporate it, I don't have to undo anything I already have. Expand my cyl base mount to accept the lower link and add a new bed side mount. The scissor itself can be built on my bench

And it will be the longest scissor lift that I have ever seen! :laughing:

CDN Farm Boy · Jan 14, 2015

Xfaxman said:
And it will be the longest scissor lift that I have ever seen! :laughing:

Lol. Perhaps it will be. It's only 54" or so from lower mount to hinge. I guess that's on the large side?

If I'd have planned it this way from the start, I'd have bought the 4x20 cyl that was besides this one in the clearance bin and $75 cheaper, but hey, obviously I thought my original way would work. Live and learn.

Xfaxman · Jan 14, 2015

CDN Farm Boy said:
Lol. Perhaps it will be. It's only 54" or so from lower mount to hinge. I guess that's on the large side?

If I'd have planned it this way from the start, I'd have bought the 4x20 cyl that was besides this one in the clearance bin and $75 cheaper, but hey, obviously I thought my original way would work. Live and learn.

Yep, all that I have seen use a short stroke large diameter cylinder.