synthetic oil help generator start better???

[arlen4720]

The more I read, the more I don't know! :laughing:

Here's a good read from Bob is the oil guy....
Motor Oil 103 - Bob is the Oil Guy - Bob is the Oil Guy

Good read! A quote "A synthetic oil that is labeled as 10W-30 is less honey like as a mineral based 10W-30 motor oil at startup."
Read the whole thing. I always thought 'same number means same thing'. Not so much anymore.

That is right. I was just getting ready to quote your earlier post, but you "saw the light":thumbsup: I think the simple 5w30 (or whatever) are just 2 points on the scale. Oils have a "viscosity index" also. The higher the number, the better the oil maintains it's viscosity over a wider range of temperatures. Take a quart of John Deere 0w40, a quart of whatever weight of dino you want, and put them in your deep freeze. You will be amazed at the difference.
I use synthetic in my tractors for 1 reason...extreme cold weather operation. I can't believe people still use 15w40 in the northland in the winter. It won't even pour out of a bottle at -10F!!!

 

[kenmac]

the original poster will see no noticeable difference in how his engine starts in cold weather due to the thickness of the oil if he uses the same weight oil, synthetic or non-synthetic.

Not true.. the synthetic oil will flow better than dino oil in cold weather... Look at the cold flow / pour point charts for synthetic oils.. The viscosity can and does change quite a bit in both cold and hot weather some synthetics will have a pour point of -50*... I challenge you to find a dino with a pour point of -50*.. so, If we're at 10* out and you have a dino 5w 30 and I have synthetic 5w 30 you are saying your dino will flow just as easily as my synthetic at engine start up ??? No

 

[MossRoad]

Not true.. the synthetic oil will flow better than dino oil in cold weather... Look at the cold flow / pour point charts for synthetic oils.. The viscosity can and does change quite a bit in both cold and hot weather some synthetics will have a pour point of -50*... I challenge you to find a dino with a pour point of -50*.. so, If we're at 10* out and you have a dino 5w 30 and I have synthetic 5w 30 you are saying your dino will flow just as easily as my synthetic at engine start up ??? No

Yes, I have seen the light.... read on... :laughing:

 

[ray66v]

Not true.. the synthetic oil will flow better than dino oil in cold weather... Look at the cold flow / pour point charts for synthetic oils.. The viscosity can and does change quite a bit in both cold and hot weather some synthetics will have a pour point of -50*... I challenge you to find a dino with a pour point of -50*.. so, If we're at 10* out and you have a dino 5w 30 and I have synthetic 5w 30 you are saying your dino will flow just as easily as my synthetic at engine start up ??? No

Repost:

Nothing I have ever changed to synthetic, has started noticeably better.

Mobil1 10w30 synthetic, minimum pour point, -42F
Valvoline 10w30 conventional, minimum pour point -36F
Similar results are also there for lubricity.

Yes, the synthetic is better. But, it's 2015, there is no substantial difference anymore, until you get to the extremes. At 0 degrees F, the differences are still minimal.

I have to put 20w50 synthetic oil in aircraft engines, in the winter all the time. Even at 20F, it doesn't want to come out of the bottle.

 

[varmint]

It ain't scientific, but when I had my old ('88) B8200, and it was cold (20 degrees?) it was a bear to start. With synthetic Rotella oil it turned over a lot easier, and then, when I added the block heater, starting in the winter was about like the summer starts. I figured the engine and battery had a much better time with the synthetic.

I had a Subaru Forester with a manual tranny, and I found that putting synthetic gear oil it sure made the box shift easier when it was cold. Once it warmed up, no difference, but when you started out in the morning with single digit temps, you could feel it!

 

[Copperhead]

It doesn't matter if it is a 5w30 conventional or the 5w30 synthetic, they both have a 5 winter flow rating, which means they both meet the same lower temp requirements for winter flow. Now it is true, a 0w30 will beat a 5w30 of either variety. Many assume the number in front of the "w" on a 5w30, 15w40, 10w30, 0w20, etc refers to a viscosity. It does not. It refers to the industry standard winter flow rating. The number after the "w" is the actual viscosity of the oil. There are even straight 30 weight synthetics that qualify as a 10w30 simply because, even though they are a straight weight, they meet the 10w winter flow rating. Now it is true, that synthetics, generally, require less viscosity improvers to meet the both the winter flow rating and the true viscosity numbers. And there is a limit to what can be done with a conventional oil. You cannot make a 0w30 or 0w40 out of a conventional. The amount of viscosity improvers to even attempt this would compromise the integrity of the oil itself. Once you get into a 0 winter flow rating, you are pretty much in full synthetic territory, or at a minimum, a conventional/synthetic blend. Even a 5w40, the spread between the viscosity and the cold flow requirement pretty much relegates the oil to the synthetic category. Conventional oils just can't effectively meet those type of requirements.

 

[arlen4720]

It doesn't matter if it is a 5w30 conventional or the 5w30 synthetic, they both have a 5 winter flow rating, which means they both meet the same lower temp requirements for winter flow. Now it is true, a 0w30 will beat a 5w30 of either variety. Many assume the number in front of the "w" on a 5w30, 15w40, 10w30, 0w20, etc refers to a viscosity. It does not. It refers to the industry standard winter flow rating. The number after the "w" is the actual viscosity of the oil. There are even straight 30 weight synthetics that qualify as a 10w30 simply because, even though they are a straight weight, they meet the 10w winter flow rating. Now it is true, that synthetics, generally, require less viscosity improvers to meet the both the winter flow rating and the true viscosity numbers. And there is a limit to what can be done with a conventional oil. You cannot make a 0w30 or 0w40 out of a conventional. The amount of viscosity improvers to even attempt this would compromise the integrity of the oil itself. Once you get into a 0 winter flow rating, you are pretty much in full synthetic territory, or at a minimum, a conventional/synthetic blend. Even a 5w40, the spread between the viscosity and the cold flow requirement pretty much relegates the oil to the synthetic category. Conventional oils just can't effectively meet those type of requirements.

If you put both a qt of 5w30 conventional and a qt of 5w30 synthetic in a deep freeze, as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, the synthetic will flow better. The synthetic has a higher viscosity index and a lower cold pour point. Just try it and you will see. The "w" rating is at a certain temp (maybe 0deg F??), you get lower than that and the synthetic wins.

 

[kenmac]

Repost:

Nothing I have ever changed to synthetic, has started noticeably better.

Mobil1 10w30 synthetic, minimum pour point, -42F
Valvoline 10w30 conventional, minimum pour point -36F
Similar results are also there for lubricity.

Yes, the synthetic is better. But, it's 2015, there is no substantial difference anymore

everyone is entitled to their opinion Here's mine...
All my engines have started better,,, I guess you are using the wrong synthetic... I don't care what year it is,,, there are substantial differences between dino and a true synthetic..

 

[kenmac]

If you put both a qt of 5w30 conventional and a qt of 5w30 synthetic in a deep freeze, as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, the synthetic will flow better. The synthetic has a higher viscosity index and a lower cold pour point. Just try it and you will see. The "w" rating is at a certain temp (maybe 0deg F??), you get lower than that and the synthetic wins.

Some, just can't seen to be able to see the forest for the trees..But,, those that love dino will probably always love dino.. those that love synthetic will most likely always love synthetic.. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.. Those convinced against their will , are of the same opinion still !!

 

[ray66v]

everyone is entitled to their opinion Here's mine...
All my engines have started better,,, I guess you are using the wrong synthetic... I don't care what year it is,,, there are substantial differences between dino and a true synthetic..

The two things that matter most for this scenario are, viscosity, and Lubricity.

The differences in those numbers are not sufficient enough, to make a noticeable difference at a "normal" temperature. (I used 0 F). That is based on the actual published numbers. Not my opinion.

It does matter what year it is, you may have been right 35 years ago. But, improvements in oil technology in last 20 years, have actually applied to both products.

Most of the "perceived" difference, is based on what people believe from 35 years ago, not the current reality.

I used one of the most common synthetic oils, (Mobil 1), and one of the most common mineral oils, (Valvoline) in this example.

Show me your data, proving the "substantial differences" you mentioned, are real, not just your opinion.

Again, I am not saying the synthetic oil is not better. It is, in extreme conditions, and can go for longer intervals.

But, in this example, there will be no noticeable difference. Any difference will be imagined. An oil based placebo effect.