Not another grapple thread!?!?

Raincoast · Jan 16, 2015

Yup... It's another one. Sorry folks.
Our little acreage is proving to be a challenge to clean up & a good grapple has become a first priority for me. We have committed the funds, now we just have to decide which way to jump.
We have thick second growth forest that has grown over old logging slash. Lots of buried logs & churned up land from hauling out the huge old growth, many years ago. We also have a couple of acres of blackberry, salmonberry cascara etc etc, so thick you can't beat your way through it.
We want to leave most of the large (70 year old red cedar, fir & hemlock) second growth trees, which makes for some tight manoeuvering. For that reason, I have been looking more at the "root" type grapple than the "bucket" type. It's shorter profile looks better for working in tight spaces. Also, I will be dumping loads of slash onto burning slash piles... I have noticed (on the MANY grapple videos I've watched) that the bucket style grapple doesn't always want to drop its load without a bit of fuss.
From most of the postings I've read here, the root grapple has very few proponents & I'd like to know the reasons for that... Before I spend the bug bucks and end up disappointed with the grapple I'm looking at.
If I lived in the US, I'd likely just buy one of the cost effective 4' bucket grapples & go for it. Living in a remote area on the west coast of Canada, shipping costs, brokerage fees & a nearly 20% difference in the buck makes an inexpensive ebay grapple almost as costly as a high quality Canadian made unit purchased through my Kioti dealer.
So friends... Whadyathink. Am I out to lunch, wanting a 4' - 5' root grapple?
I'd love to hear from some of you who have experience with the short coupled root grapples. Pros & cons?
Thanks. Dan
P.S. So... How often do you folks haul out the grease gun & give the zerks a fresh dose? So far, I've been greasing about every 10 hrs, or after a particularly dirty day wallowing around in the mud.

JRL305 · Jan 16, 2015

My Kubota B3200 book wants the FEL greased after 10 hours so I'll grease my grapple at about 20. I use a open bottom grapple that's 48" because of the tight quarters between trees on our property. I'm glad I didn't go bigger because of the weight that it adds to the front end and reducing lifting power. There's a ton of grapple threads going on and there's hours of reading to really get your brain spinning.

sd455dan · Jan 16, 2015

I agree with an open bottom grapple. especially for old slash piles. We had lots of old piles of mixed dirt, logs , stumps and debris.

We ended up with a used round tined grapple and it has been very good at going thru old slash piles ( separating the wood from soil)
It also works good for picking up logs.

With your Kiotis FELs lifting power- i wouldn't be to concerned with the grapples weight in the width you are considering.

my :2cents:

Raincoast · Jan 16, 2015

I think I may have gotten my terminology mixed up. I should have said I am looking at a "rake" grapple when most folks are advocating the flat bottomed tine grapple. (I've seen this latter kind referred to as a "bucket type")
Both are "open bottom" but the rake grapple is much shorter with no flat section to the tines.

txdon · Jan 16, 2015

Raincoast said:
I think I may have gotten my terminology mixed up. I should have said I am looking at a "rake" grapple when most folks are advocating the flat bottomed tine grapple. (I've seen this latter kind referred to as a "bucket type")
Both are "open bottom" but the rake grapple is much shorter with no flat section to the tines.

When you say "rake grapple" are you referring to one like this?

Raincoast · Jan 16, 2015

Yeah... That's the kind. The one I'm looking at is built lighter than that, but that's the basic concept.

oosik · Jan 17, 2015

View attachment 407043 View attachment 407044

I went with the Land Pride grapple - SGC1560. Its very HD but I'm certain I will not bend or break it.
BTW - I grease the FEL & grapple every ten hours or thereabouts.

TomSeller · Jan 17, 2015

The fundamental problem with rake grapples stems from the length of the lower tines in my opinion. If you are going to carry debris with the grapple, you need to get under the load. While the guy in this picture from Titan's website picked up this boulder, it is NOT easy to do. I have that same grapple and an L bottom and the time it takes me to move a pile or grab some wood and haul it does not even compare, the L bottom is much better. On the other hand if I want to tidy up and back rake, the L bottom doesn't compare, the rake is better. Picking up some items with my rake is like trying to cut something with those blunt end kids scissors, it just keeps popping out.

Oosik's rake grapple has somewhat longer lower teeth and is serrated on the tips which would help a lot. The grapple TXDon posted a picture of is sort of a hybrid, more L type.

If I want a pinch of salt, I position my fingers like a rake grapple, if I want to pick up a big sack of salt, I position my fingers like an L grapple and get under the load.

Raincoast · Jan 17, 2015

Good info! Thanks guys.
I like Tom's "pinch of salt" analogy. I don't think I'll be picking up too many tiny objects from the forest floor. Maybe time to re-consider the clamshell grapple idea.
Do any of you L bottom grapple owners have trouble dropping the load, once you get it to the slash pile?
I watched one video where the poor guy spent a couple of minutes trying to drop the load onto a fire. By the time he dropped the brush, it was fully engulfed. Pretty exciting, but a bit tough on paint & hoses I'd think.
Cheers! Dan

k0ua · Jan 17, 2015

Raincoast said:
Good info! Thanks guys.
I like Tom's "pinch of salt" analogy. I don't think I'll be picking up too many tiny objects from the forest floor. Maybe time to re-consider the clamshell grapple idea.
Do any of you L bottom grapple owners have trouble dropping the load, once you get it to the slash pile?
I watched one video where the poor guy spent a couple of minutes trying to drop the load onto a fire. By the time he dropped the brush, it was fully engulfed. Pretty exciting, but a bit tough on paint & hoses I'd think.
Cheers! Dan

The short answer, no. No trouble at all. Dump the "bucket" down, and it goes slighty past vertical, how can anything stay in it?. unless some small stick goes between the teeth. But in that case just back out and go for another load and it will work itself out. Nothing of any significant size stays in mine. Maybe the dump angle on some loaders is not as good, I dunno.

Raincoast · Jan 17, 2015

P.S.
TXdon & Oosik... What kind of work do you do with your clamshell grapples? And more importantly, do you like them? No wishing you'd bought the L bottomed unit instead?

txdon · Jan 17, 2015

Raincoast said:
Good info! Thanks guys.
I like Tom's "pinch of salt" analogy. I don't think I'll be picking up too many tiny objects from the forest floor. Maybe time to re-consider the clamshell grapple idea.
Do any of you L bottom grapple owners have trouble dropping the load, once you get it to the slash pile?
I watched one video where the poor guy spent a couple of minutes trying to drop the load onto a fire. By the time he dropped the brush, it was fully engulfed. Pretty exciting, but a bit tough on paint & hoses I'd think.
Cheers! Dan

As you can see in mine the back comes to a "V". When something gets stuck I just put it on the ground and back up. I do not get off the tractor, and this might happen once every fifty scoops.

txdon · Jan 17, 2015

Raincoast said:
P.S.
TXdon & Oosik... What kind of work do you do with your clamshell grapples? And more importantly, do you like them? No wishing you'd bought the L bottomed unit instead?

I have been clearing land of Youpon, fallen trees and scrub brush. For me I could not have pick a better shaped grapple for popping them out by the roots. It is 50" wide.
For limbs I lopped or chain sawed I throw them in the grapple to take to the brush pile. I'm doing both today I take a picture of the 2 days worth of brush I've accumulated.

TomSeller · Jan 17, 2015

txdon said:
As you can see in mine the back comes to a "V". When something gets stuck I just put it on the ground and back up. I do not get off the tractor, and this might happen once every fifty scoops.

Same here. I do get items wedged in the tines, but like you say, drop it to the ground and back up. I don't have the best uncurl angle so sometimes clingy stuff hangs up a little. I like to drop my brush beside the fire, back up, close the lid and push it into the fire. I don't like it when the brush catches fire while in the grapple from the heat which can easily be 1000 degF. Remember, you have hydraulics up there, not to mention the front of your tractor. I do let chunks of wood roll off into the fire. I don't like to push anything heavy with the lid closed, it is too hard on the hinges. Pushing brush is fine, but no stumps. Just after the attached picture, I dropped those vines at the edge of the pile and pushed the whole pile towards the fire. Be safe.

Jim Timber · Jan 17, 2015

k0ua said:
The short answer, no. No trouble at all. Dump the "bucket" down, and it goes slighty past vertical, how can anything stay in it?. unless some small stick goes between the teeth. But in that case just back out and go for another load and it will work itself out. Nothing of any significant size stays in mine. Maybe the dump angle on some loaders is not as good, I dunno.

Some of the bend radii on root grapples is excessive IMO, and cuts into how close to vertical you can get with the bottom tines.

As I've been mentally trying to design my own root grapple, I keep wondering what these guys are thinking making the L so acute? You could gain the same structural value by having a gusset inside the corner without having the bucket mount pointed so far forward. It's not like the J shape has any more capacity than an L with some bracing.

Raincoast · Jan 17, 2015

Jim... After seeing some frustrated fellas trying to dump a load of tangled brush, I started wondering the same thing. When I dump my FEL bucket, it goes well past vertical. With the angle designed into most flat bottomed grapples, it looks like most are lucky to achieve a vertical drop from the tines.
I see that the Land Pride grapple has an optional tine shape at the tips. No "teeth" and the tips slope downward instead of sweeping up.

txdon · Jan 17, 2015

As promised here are the popping brush pics, and one raking pic.

I can tilt the grapple so the lids hit the ground and the back tines do not touch the ground - there is no problem dumping.

Poopdeck Pappy · Jan 17, 2015

TXDon, I knew at one time but I've forgotten. What brand of grapple is yours? It looks extremely well built.

Raincoast · Jan 17, 2015

Thanks for the pics, Txdon. Is that a "Rake Shop" grapple? Pretty skookum rig! Looks a bit heavy for my DS45, though. I'd like to keep the weight at 500lbs or less.