9mm Ammo for Groundhogs

[buickanddeere]

Ruger used to make a 9mm carbine and several manufactures still do. Something handy about a side arm and a long arm that use the same ammo.
Same 9mm ammo from a pistol at 1000fps runs 1500-1600fps from a longer rifle barrel. Longer sight radius too. Roughly double the energy. Flatter trajectory too.
Would make a hard hitting short range rifle for shooting from a tree stand.
Some jurisdictions frown on hollow point ammo in side arms yet hollow point is ok in a rifle ?

 

[MossRoad]

Ruger used to make a 9mm carbine and several manufactures still do. Something handy about a side arm and a long arm that use the same ammo.
Same 9mm ammo from a pistol at 1000fps runs 1500-1600fps from a longer rifle barrel. Longer sight radius too. Roughly double the energy. Flatter trajectory too.
Would make a hard hitting short range rifle for shooting from a tree stand.
Some jurisdictions frown on hollow point ammo in side arms yet hollow point is ok in a rifle ?

Some use the same magazine for pistol and carbine. I know their .45 model uses the 1911 magazines.

 

[buickanddeere]

Spring GH and fall GH are two different critters.

 

[bumperm]

Ruger used to make a 9mm carbine and several manufactures still do. Something handy about a side arm and a long arm that use the same ammo.
Same 9mm ammo from a pistol at 1000fps runs 1500-1600fps from a longer rifle barrel. Longer sight radius too. Roughly double the energy. Flatter trajectory too.
Would make a hard hitting short range rifle for shooting from a tree stand.
Some jurisdictions frown on hollow point ammo in side arms yet hollow point is ok in a rifle ?

I think the pistol / carbine thing has more appeal with a rimmed cartridge like .357 magnum or .44 mag. That way one can use a six shooter paired with a lever action carbine. More fun to play with while watching old John Wayne movies (grin). In any case, the .357 offers the advantage of being able to shoot powder-puff .38 special ammo in either gun. And in both cases a carbine shooting a pistol round is going to be fairly anemic as compared to most any modern centerfire rifle round and even a few oldies such as the 30-30.

I suspect the rimless pistol cartridge carbines are more intended to appeal to police/military use where higher power rifle cartridges have unwanted penetration and added risk of collateral damage. Just guessing though.

BTW, I'm so old fashioned that I'd carry a wheelgun (did that when I was LE in the 70's), for CC I use either a Sig P229 in .40 or a P938 in 9 mm.

 

[k0ua]

I think the pistol / carbine thing has more appeal with a rimmed cartridge like .357 magnum or .44 mag. That way one can use a six shooter paired with a lever action carbine. More fun to play with while watching old John Wayne movies (grin). In any case, the .357 offers the advantage of being able to shoot powder-puff .38 special ammo in either gun. And in both cases a carbine shooting a pistol round is going to be fairly anemic as compared to most any modern centerfire rifle round and even a few oldies such as the 30-30.

I suspect the rimless pistol cartridge carbines are more intended to appeal to police/military use where higher power rifle cartridges have unwanted penetration and added risk of collateral damage. Just guessing though.

BTW, I'm so old fashioned that I'd carry a wheelgun (did that when I was LE in the 70's), for CC I use either a Sig P229 in .40 or a P938 in 9 mm.

While I would not call a 9mm a powerhouse, I would not want anyone shooting at me even at rather long ranges when chambered in a carbine. Check out this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wXFf34bB34

 

[bumperm]

While I would not call a 9mm a powerhouse, I would not want anyone shooting at me even at rather long ranges when chambered in a carbine. Check out this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wXFf34bB34

All you have to do is innocently ask, "What's the best self defense cartridge?", and the debate will rage on.

I used to think that 9 mm and 38 special were the minimum effective self defense round. To a point, I still do, at least in terms of what I'm willing to every day carry. I concede lesser performing cartridges will do the job, heck, even a .22 lr will do in a pinch (I carry a North American Arms 22 mag revolver when I'm out my bicycle). Smaller than 9 mm means shot placement becomes even more critical for good stopping power.

The 9 mm "effective kill range" video does make (or maybe more accurately, stretches) a point. Demonstrated accuracy? Not so much, though that isn't necessarily the cartridges fault. If a gun isn't accurate, it doesn't interest me. This is from a Cooper Montana Varmint rifle in .223 at 200 yards, just after break in and while sighting in (I stopped at just a 3 round group 'cause I didn't want to "blow it"):

 

[LD1]

Spring GH and fall GH are two different critters.

Aside from a fall hog being a few months older and a few months wiser, what's the difference?

 

[RobertBrown]

All you have to do is innocently ask, "What's the best self defense cartridge?", and the debate will rage on.

I used to think that 9 mm and 38 special were the minimum effective self defense round. To a point, I still do, at least in terms of what I'm willing to every day carry. I concede lesser performing cartridges will do the job, heck, even a .22 lr will do in a pinch (I carry a North American Arms 22 mag revolver when I'm out my bicycle). Smaller than 9 mm means shot placement becomes even more critical for good stopping power.

The 9 mm "effective kill range" video does make (or maybe more accurately, stretches) a point. Demonstrated accuracy? Not so much, though that isn't necessarily the cartridges fault. If a gun isn't accurate, it doesn't interest me. This is from a Cooper Montana Varmint rifle in .223 at 200 yards, just after break in and while sighting in (I stopped at just a 3 round group 'cause I didn't want to "blow it"):

That's an impressive group. I see you were using Hornady bullets, did you hand load those rounds? What was the load? What were the optics?

 

[buickanddeere]

Aside from a fall hog being a few months older and a few months wiser, what's the difference?

The amount of fat or grease

 

[bumperm]

That's an impressive group. I see you were using Hornady bullets, did you hand load those rounds? What was the load? What were the optics?

Scope is a Leupold VX-L 6.5-20 X 56 (now discontinued, never could figure out why Leupold dropped it, 'cept for the "strange" design). Ammo is off-the-shelf Black Hills. I do reload for .223 but didn't have any light stuff enough for the Montana's slow 1 - 12 twist rate.



Gun did not have suppressor mounted sighting in. Cooper guarantees minimum 1/2" MOA . . . this particular example is 4 times better. Never shot anything like that before. I was not using a spotting scope, saw the first round, actually thought I must have missed the second, and was astounded after the third when I realized it was one 1/4"group! (I'm easily impressed :c)