Any news on gas engine CUTS?

[hutchman]

Wow , you guys get your panties in a wad over the damndest things . Buy what you like and drive it, is on your tab .

I agree. Use the best tool for the job/application. Just because you have a hammer in the toolbox doesn't make everything a nail!

 

[hutchman]

Oh really? I didn't have time to address this one before lunch ...

Because Ethanol makes gas suck, now the fuel system has to be able to handle abrasives and fuel pumps and injectors are made out of special material that resist corrosion (and we have it from you that this doesn't cost any more than it does now). It doesn't have to be 2000 bar to kill gas injectors and fuel pumps. Ethanol gas is so great it can kill stuff at 200 bar (even less, it kills two cycles with diaphram carbs too ... what a deal!)

And if 10% mandated wasn't causing enough problems, now we have 15%! Brilliant! I and others have said it before and I'll say it again ... this crap has no place in a tractor environment.

In fact, this Ethanol crap is what has been screwing up Diesel engines too. You know why VW and others have had a rash of HPFP failues? Non ATSM spec fuel. What is it that's making it non spec? Because carriers have been using the same tankers to transport gassoline and diesel - diesel station pumps are contaminated with Ethanol. I find it funny (in a sick twisted way) that the Feds stuck their nose in this issue when the cause is their own mandaded foolishness!

VW's reply to a NHTSA investigation on high pressure fuel pump failures: "fuel system damage incurred by use of fuel not complying to ASTM-D-975 Grade 2 S15 (B5 or less biodiesel content) standards will not be covered under warranty."

AGCO Automotive Repair Service - Baton Rouge, LA - Detailed Auto Topics - What Causes Fuel Pumps to Fail
Injector Repair LLC: Ethanol can cause fuel injector clogging and fuel injection problems.
Bad Fuel: Fact or Fiction? | KnowYourParts

... and I could go on and on with how genius Ethanol in fuel systems is.

So congradulations. Ethanol screws up fuel systems no matter what psi it is operating at ... it just does a quicker job the higher the psi is! Just another way our Govt. is looking out for us.

... furthermore, almost no one is doing any kind of testing on lubricity of gassoline as there hasn't been much need until recently. Of the material I could find ... the only thing nice I can say about Ethanol is it appeared to help with lubricity compared to 100% gasoline. So who knows what GDI high pressure fuel pump problems are around the corner. It's an unknown.

 

[bigdeano]

Just make my new gas tractor with throttle body injection please. The only way very many would sell is if they're enough cheaper and simpler than diesels. Some people don't like the smell of diesel or it makes them sick. It would be nice if they were available.

 

[buickanddeere]

Today they don't. What about in 2017? You don't want to talk about the past and you don't want to acknowledge the future. Dealing with PM on gas engines is same as Diesel ... make engine smaller (then you're going to need a trubo), use tuining (computer - high pressure fuel system), higher compression - well there goes the majority of your equipment cost savings, EGR cooler, and some flavor of particulate filter. This is the menu to pick from. Not all engines will have all these but ALL will have some of these! Mark my word.


Maybe true at this second but again what about 2017?

... buts that's where enough of the super bad particulate matter comes from that another injection method is used.

Green Car Congress: Nissan Introduces New Dual Injector System for Improved Fuel Efficiency in Small-Displacement PFI Engines
Green Car Congress: Audi using supplementary port fuel injection to address particulates from gasoline direct injection

... you're living in a dream world and cannot be helped.

There is no free lunch. Once EPA starts putting PM screws to gasoline like diesel we'll start to see the real story. If history repeats itself, the gas engine will have about 7-8 years of growing pains and folks will yearn for the simple days of the gas engine.

Do tell, have a look at the 2.4L Eco Tech III such as in Mrs B&D's vehicle doesn't vary it's cam timing. Or tell us it has an EGR valve.
Waiting for your remarks on glow plugs.
DI gas engines are traveling more miles with less problems per engine than Tier IV vehicles. It's a simple matter of fact. Check with an honest person at the local dealerships.
The primary problem are the persons in the EPA who hold beliefs such as this near and dear as the attachment and similar . They plan to regulate all ICE vehicles off the road.A Religion of Nature, Earth, Gaia | World Pantheism

 

[buickanddeere]

The two engines in the same vehicle make different amounts of power, and different amounts of torque, so it's another one of your apples-to-oranges comparisons. To make a valid comparison of efficiency you'd need the two engines to create similar max power and torque figures, and see which would do that with less fuel per mile (hint, it would be the diesel, just by a bigger margin).

I'm not mixed up on the difference between btu per gallon, and thermal efficiency....you simply don't understand what thermal efficiency is.

We don't operate cars/trucks on cost per mile, we operate on gallons per mile if you're discussing efficiency....cost per mile varies with fuel costs. Further, this discussion is about tractors, not cars or trucks, and we operate them on a gallons per hour basis.



Wow...lots of incorrect assumptions there. First off, the diesel system gets more energy out of fewer gallons regardless of what year it is. They usually weigh more, and cost a bit more (gap is closing), so they aren't perfect, but there isn't any question which makes more efficient use of fuel.

I don't own any road going diesels, and I never even owned a diesel until a couple of years ago. I've operated them off and on for close to 30 years, but didn't own any. I have exactly zero invested in telling people anything about them, much less that they should buy them. Heck, I only own three diesel engines right now and 15 or so gas engines.

Loose face? Is that even possible? Are there some bolts or rivets that hold it in place, or would it require a surgical procedure?

Did finished posting comparable displacement power, torque and HP gas and diesel engines with the Ford Eco Boost 2.7 and 3.5 vs the Fiat VM 3.0 diesel. Why did you willingly ignore that info ?

 

[hutchman]

Waiting for your remarks on glow plugs.

What is there to say? I've got a half million miles on my cars and I've never replaced one. Are you suggesting spark plugs can do that???

GDI gas engines are traveling more miles with less problems per engine than Tier IV vehicles.

So big semi trucks should be using them then. You better tell someone.

It's a simple matter of fact. Check with an honest person at the local dealerships.

If diesels suck so bad, then why is everyone researching HCCI .... a diesel engine that burns gasoline???

And why would anyone in their right mind come up with such a bastardization except it be the only way to satisfy some administration's (and EPA's) wet dream?

 

[hutchman]

What is there to say? I've got a half million miles on my cars and I've never replaced one. Are you suggesting spark plugs can do that???

... besides, the majority of the time they aren't even used. Heck, even if all of them failed and wouldn't work I could still start my engine. I'd like to see your GDI do that

 

[hutchman]

... DI gas engines are traveling more miles with less problems per engine than Tier IV vehicles. It's a simple matter of fact. Check with an honest person at the local dealerships.

Look, if you want to do an honest comparison, the GDI 'right now, at present' is equal to my 2002 TDI - pre-2007 emissions. My PM is bad, GDI PM is bad. Both are good on C02 but both are bad when it comes to NOx and other bad stuff. Diesel PM is bigger, GDI has lots of tiny particles that get deeper in lungs ... we can argue how bad each is until the cows come home ... not my point ... my point is both are DI without a bunch of junk on them. Show me a GDI that isn't a hybird that gets 41MPG in the city. Show me one that gets 50+MPG on the highway. Even my wife's 2006 PD/BRM engine gets no less than 36MPG in the city. It doesn't do so well on the highway (a lowly 45MPG) because it has more emission stuff on it ... and that isn't driving miserly ... that's loaded down with kids and luggage going to the beach with AC blasting and going 10MPH over the speed limit because that's the only time I can measure it. And it isn't some computer telling me my MPG ... It's me refilling to the same point and using paper/pen method.

The engine in my 2002 is called the ALH. It's probably the last bullet proof indestructible diesel VW made. It's the same engine that's in the TDI Rally car that sets records climbing Pikes Peak ( Jon's Auto - Specializing in VW Repair - Marysville, Ohio - About ). I know guys that have done the 6 speed tranny swap and they get well into the 60MPG range. If you don't believe me, go to TDIClub.com, look for the threads that talk about TDIFest. They have competitions to see who drove the most miles to get to the 'get together' and who got the most mileage. The people who won the MPG contest usually used a 'scangauge' to monitor load and fuel usage and drive according to that instead of the speed limit (and at times they got tickets for going too slow up a hill on the Interstate) but the point is their data was verified, recorded ... not some 'bubba's' word. The winners were usually in the 70MPG range. These are heavy, safe cars, with tons of airbags that will go pretty fast (I've personally had mine over 130MPH before) ... I don't know of any gasser that can deliver the same performance and economy. If there were, I'd be driving it. The only thing I've ever 'had' to do to mine was change the timing belt, oil and filters. I still have the original brake pads on the front and only had to replace the rear last year (did I mention it is a 2002 with 175K miles?).

... They plan to regulate all ICE vehicles off the road.A Religion of Nature, Earth, Gaia | World Pantheism

I think we finally found some common ground. This world is not my home, I'm just passing through! Oh, I believe in global warming. The sun comes up, it gets warm, the sun goes down, it cools. Did man have any measurable effect on that? This kind of talk will get the thread locked faster than anything

 

[hutchman]

... DI gas engines are traveling more miles with less problems per engine ...

Feel free to send me all the links you can of GDI's doing this:
500K Certificate - TDIClub Gallery

 

[GManBart]

Did finished posting comparable displacement power, torque and HP gas and diesel engines with the Ford Eco Boost 2.7 and 3.5 vs the Fiat VM 3.0 diesel. Why did you willingly ignore that info ?

I'm not really sure what that means, but you didn't post the figures for those engines, and you certainly didn't post specs for those engines in the same vehicle, which is the ONLY time it would be apples-to-apples.

Further, those three don't have comparable displacement, so it makes even less sense because you contradict yourself (again).

Now that you mention the Fiat VM 3.0 engine:
2014 Winner: Chrysler 3.0L EcoDiesel DOHC V-6 | Ward's 10 Best Engines content from WardsAuto