Any news on gas engine CUTS?

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   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #251  
Again, you're using an argument already proven to be false. The refineries have let go of a huge amount of profit recently when they dropped the price of gasoline 50%. The tax difference between gas and diesel has been steady for a long time, and is only $.06 to start with.

The companies that own the refineries here are some of the same companies that own refineries in the rest of the world....and they dropped their prices back down after they paid off the ULSD costs. The supply and demand issue in this country has gotten better, and is predicted to continue to get better as refineries adjust to the new demand. These aren't guesses, and aren't wild theories.

Either way, let us know when you get your tractor company off the ground and get some actual comparison numbers for a gasser CUT....I'm sure it will be interesting. :thumbsup:

Around the world the the taxes are the single largest cost of fuel. Gasoline in Europe was considered a luxury for the wealthy that could be taxed. And to force the middle class into politically correct socalist public transportation.Diesel was considered an essential for industry and farms and was taxed less. Simple .
Take away the btu per dollar advantage of diesel and the flexible markets drop diesel in a heartbeat.
 
   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #252  
Why are you dragging the HD industrial, comercial diesel into the conversation again? We are talking light duty service .

What? I've been talking about the "lightest" of uses ... passenger automobile. You know, those things that don't tow anything and just move people and groceries.

How do you make a point with souped up non stock diesel
OK I'll recap for you. Stock TDI=good performance, excellent economy (remember I told you the story of a 90HP diesel holding curise control dead on going up one of the longest, steapest grades on the East Coast?). Modified TDI=excellent performance, good economy ... enough ecomomy to still stomp over any GDI (non-hybird) you can come up with in any category.
 
   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #253  
The numbers still hold up with trailer towing as both the diesel and gas will burn more when towing a load.

False. They both burn more while towing compared to without a load, but the gasser uses a significant amount more while towing compared to the diesel....it isn't a proportional increase.

You seem to have a lot to learn about how engines work. To get the mileage the EcoBoost 2.7 does, you have to stay out of the turbos...light throttle only. That won't happen while towing.

Actual tests while towing with a Ram 3.0 diesel...they got 18.9mpg pulling a 6,000lb load.

Towing Trip Fuel Economy - 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Long-Term Road Test

Real-world tests of folks on the EcoBoost forum posting their actual mileage while towing....results go from a low of 8mpg up to around 14mpg. Not even close to what actual results with the Ram 3.0 are showing. In fact, the folks on this forum state you have to stay out of the boost, and keep your speed down to achieve anything around the EPA numbers.

Towing MPG


As for all this trailer towing talk. In reality the amount of pickup truck owners that tow anything at all are rare.Look around gas and diesel pickups are driven as personal transportation hauling pets, groceries and sports equipment. The number of diesel pickups are much fewer than gas. The number of diesels on the road with an actual hitch is a smaller minority yet.Fewer still the diesels that tow anything more than a car trailer , bumper pull camping trailer or a bass boat and that is 100 to 1000 miles a year at most.The actual number of pickups sold that actually tow over 10,000 lbs on a 5th wheel hitch is a exceedingly small market share. Even then the distances are short trips under an hour.not cross country hauling 40hrs a week.
People who talk diesel towing power and diesel towing effiency are 99% dreamers that they are big time truckers just like the He Man TB ads "Dodge Tough".
It's 2015, not the past glory years of diesel pickups from 1988 to 2006 . When pump diesel was cheap, coloured farm diesel cheaper yet and before particulate filters/urea injection.

This has nothing to do with the discussion of efficiency, economy and suitability for use in tractors. Clearly, if people don't do much towing, their needs are different than those who do.
 
   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #254  
False. They both burn more while towing compared to without a load, but the gasser uses a significant amount more while towing compared to the diesel....it isn't a proportional increase.

You seem to have a lot to learn about how engines work. To get the mileage the EcoBoost 2.7 does, you have to stay out of the turbos...light throttle only. That won't happen while towing.

Actual tests while towing with a Ram 3.0 diesel...they got 18.9mpg pulling a 6,000lb load.

Towing Trip Fuel Economy - 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Long-Term Road Test

Real-world tests of folks on the EcoBoost forum posting their actual mileage while towing....results go from a low of 8mpg up to around 14mpg. Not even close to what actual results with the Ram 3.0 are showing. In fact, the folks on this forum state you have to stay out of the boost, and keep your speed down to achieve anything around the EPA numbers.

Towing MPG




This has nothing to do with the discussion of efficiency, economy and suitability for use in tractors. Clearly, if people don't do much towing, their needs are different than those who do.

What aRe you talking about ? I said that both gas and diesel will burn more fuel when towing.
As for taking Bubba's word for it on his vehicles mileage or HP. I take it with a grain of salt. Several times I've been of trips and calculated the mileage by filling to the brim. Seems I was bad luck as the vehicles just couldn't do as well as they "normally do".
Tuners are noted tweaking the indicated mileage on the dash into optimistic numbers .
As for the small percent of poeple who tow with thier truck. They don't tow heavy enough or far enough to make the diesel pay since the 2007 model year .in particular since the port injected gas engines were replaced with DI gas.
It's been a long time since the Cummins 6BT had carburated gas trucks to compete against. Way back in those dark days of a 350 four barrel and a three speed non lockup TH350 or TH400 transmission vs a 6BT and a five speed. With diesel priced 2/3 the cost of gasoline .
Sorry, that was a quarter Century ago and the good old days are gone .as much as you, I and most others here want the the 6BT/ISB diesel specs of that era back.
 
   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #255  
It is in Friendly Politics: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/friendly-politics/329257-wind-generators.html


From the article you linked:

So, 21% fewer gallons used, but only 2% more dollars per mile for fuel.

Aaron Z
As I read that article, it also has a 600# LESS payload capacity and 650# LESS towing capacity than the Chevy. And its slower unloaded, loaded, and even slower when towing up that hill. It has less leg room, less head room, a smaller box, less cargo volume... but it gets great fuel mileage.

The Ford did better in the speeds, than both the Chevy and Ram. Not by much over the Chevy unloaded, but much better loaded and up the mountain. But if anyone looks close.... look at the powertrain warranty.... the Ford has a 40,000 mile LESS powertrain warranty than the Chevy and the Ram. That's 40% less warranty. Wondering if they know the engine will not last as long as the others. Why wouldn't they be even closely competitive with the powertrain warranty? The Ford has a huge fuel tank. I'm a big fan of that. And its got better emissions than the Chevy and Ram.

What's really bad is the Ford weighs 1000# less than than the Ram and 600# less than the Chevy, but has 3600# LESS towing capacity than the Ram and 4400# LESS towing capacity than the Chevy!!! Of course its going to be faster with a light 1000# load. But it can't legally haul my car hauler trailer with my Impala strapped to it. The Chevy and the Ram can. However, the Chevy has more towing capacity and more payload capacity than both of them, and comes in close to the Ford's speed. So which one is really going to provide overall "truck" duty better? It pretty obvious its the Chevy.
 
   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #256  
What? I've been talking about the "lightest" of uses ... passenger automobile. You know, those things that don't tow anything and just move people and groceries.


OK I'll recap for you. Stock TDI=good performance, excellent economy (remember I told you the story of a 90HP diesel holding curise control dead on going up one of the longest, steapest grades on the East Coast?). Modified TDI=excellent performance, good economy ... enough ecomomy to still stomp over any GDI (non-hybird) you can come up with in any category.

Except..... its about 5 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile than a 2013 Impala, which = :( when it comes to driving fun. :)
 
   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #257  
What's really bad is the Ford weighs 1000# less than than the Ram and 600# less than the Chevy, but has 3600# LESS towing capacity than the Ram and 4400# LESS towing capacity than the Chevy!!! Of course its going to be faster with a light 1000# load. But it can't legally haul my car hauler trailer with my Impala strapped to it. The Chevy and the Ram can. However, the Chevy has more towing capacity and more payload capacity than both of them, and comes in close to the Ford's speed. So which one is really going to provide overall "truck" duty better? It pretty obvious its the Chevy.
I am fairly certain that it's because that truck didn't have the "Trailer Tow Package" which adds:
http://bp3.ford.com/2015-Ford-F-150?branding=1&lang=en&gnav=header-trucks#/Packages/Config%5B|Ford|F-150|2015|1|1.|100A.F1C.....SS6.RCAB.RETAIL.998.RWD.446.XL.%5D said:
4-pin/7-pin wiring harness
Auxiliary transmission oil cooler
Class IV trailer hitch receiver
Engine oil cooler (3.5L V6 Ti-VCT only)
Smart Trailer Tow Connector
Upgraded front stabilizer bar
If you don't have the "Trailer Tow Package" you are limited to towing 5000#

Aaron Z
 
   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #258  
Except..... its about 5 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile than a 2013 Impala, which = :( when it comes to driving fun. :)

True, but the torque is fun (V8 class - around 300 ft. lbs. - from a 4 cyl.) and still being able to get 50MPG on the highway is fun too. So it's a win, win.

I always keep my eye open for something better though but nothing has turned up yet. Been watching the Mazda 6 diesel for like the last 2 yrs. Who knows when it will (if ever) come here. I liked the fact that they came up with a design that would meet emission spec. without a DPF but apparently they've been having problems with them. I'll keep what I have going until the dust settles on some of this stuff.
 
   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #259  
... Ever looked at the rust on a 9 plus year old pickup truck? Ever look at the odometer of a 9 plus year old pickup truck...

Yes, what does that have to do with anything? My F-150 is over 16 years old with over 120K. miles. And your point is?
 
   / Any news on gas engine CUTS? #260  
What aRe you talking about ? I said that both gas and diesel will burn more fuel when towing.

Right, but you said the numbers stand up....they don't The gasser has a much bigger drop off in mileage when towing compared with a diesel....that's pretty well acknowledged as a standard.


As for taking Bubba's word for it on his vehicles mileage or HP. I take it with a grain of salt. Several times I've been of trips and calculated the mileage by filling to the brim. Seems I was bad luck as the vehicles just couldn't do as well as they "normally do".
Tuners are noted tweaking the indicated mileage on the dash into optimistic numbers .

Please, that thread was five pages of EcoBoost owners reporting what they get while actually tuning. Even taken with a grain of salt, it shows how seriously the mileage falls off when you tow with a twin-turbo gasser compared with a modern diesel....there is no comparison at all how much better the diesel is at it.

As for the small percent of poeple who tow with thier truck. They don't tow heavy enough or far enough to make the diesel pay since the 2007 model year .in particular since the port injected gas engines were replaced with DI gas.
It's been a long time since the Cummins 6BT had carburated gas trucks to compete against. Way back in those dark days of a 350 four barrel and a three speed non lockup TH350 or TH400 transmission vs a 6BT and a five speed. With diesel priced 2/3 the cost of gasoline .
Sorry, that was a quarter Century ago and the good old days are gone .as much as you, I and most others here want the the 6BT/ISB diesel specs of that era back.

Among the many things you don't know is how many people tow, or how often they tow. For the folks that tow frequently, a diesel makes all the sense in the world because they get better mileage while doing so.

Regardless, the topic is gas versus diesel tractors, which operate on a much different duty cycle...one a lot closer to towing with a truck, than driving down the highway with little to no load. Under those situations, the diesel rules.
 
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