NX4510 HSTC Pricing

[TSO]

Guess I better sell my snow blower, 6' rotary cutter, 7' rear finish mower, and 6' tiller I've been running with no problem on my 34 HP gear drive tractor for the past 13 years.
Apparently there's to much drama

LOL

But I don't think anyone is suggesting that that gear won't work ... Just that HST is better

 

[gladehound]

Except with a power reverser transmission you'll still use the clutch going from forward to reverse unless you're in a gear so low that you aren't getting anything done and have nothing to do and all day to do it.

Which means a same price HST would get less than nothing done in 2 days!:laughing:

 

[paulfun9]

Very little. I have been driving stuff with a clutch for a long time though.

How many large loader tractors are available with hydrostatic tranny's I wonder?

Is wanting an hst simply a matter of skill set, or is it really somehow better than say, a no - clutch reverser.

I think its mostly a matter of skill.

Before anyone wants to start on me remember I have gear, HST and power shuttle right here all the time so I have a fair comparison at my finger tips and find that they all have their strong points and weakness. The hard part for me is to find any one thing the HST does better than a gear or power shuttle when the attachment is properly sized to the machine and the correct gear is used with a driver that's not half afraid to use the machine to its potential. In most cases I find the power shuttle the most productive machine I have and it is able to use high gear for work loads which the HST isn't.

 

[holeycow]

:shocked:

Not really.

 

[Amvcane]

I think its mostly a matter of skill.

The hard part for me is to find any one thing the HST does better than a gear or power shuttle when the attachment is properly sized to the machine and the correct gear is used with a driver that's not half afraid to use the machine to its potential. In most cases I find the power shuttle the most productive machine I have and it is able to use high gear for work loads which the HST isn't.

I'll make it easy for you, Snow blowing. IMO (with a gear) there is no way you can vary your speed with the constantly changing depths and densities of snow and still get the job done as efficiently as an HST. I'm sure many Bynetters could back this up.
As for loader work, I myself feel the HST is more efficient, hand on steering, hand on joystick, foot on treadle. They are always working, removing any one for a second will introduce inefficiency.
I have seen a well seasoned gear operator doing loader work (my neighbor) and I am truly amazed at how second nature the movements are. With someone that good in the seat the HST has only a slight advantage. As for snow blowing the gear is a disadvantage.

 

[TSO]

I am a seasoned loader operator with HST, and some experience with shuttles. I can absolutely guarantee that with equal machines, I am more efficient than another operator of equal experience who is using a shuttle, mechanical or power. Same goes for box blade and fine grading work. Those are precision applications, and HST wins every time. When it comes to ground engagement work and shear muscle put to the ground, I would take a gear/shuttle tractor over HST. That would include skidding logs out of the woods, row crop work, discing, field cultivation, etc.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

But since none of us are farming for a living, were just trying to make more grass, trails, retaining walls, and pushing snow around to teach it who's boss, HST!

Rarrr!

 

[DDT414]

But since none of us are farming for a living, were just trying to make more grass, trails, retaining walls, and pushing snow around to teach it who's boss, HST! Rarrr!

I find this hst vrs power shuttle interesting. For what I do I would not consider a gear unit. I use mine for acreage work and loader placement. My tractors range from 20 hp, Kioti CK20 up to a JD 9560R. If the JD 5 series and the Koiti RX series were the same money I'm not sure any of the gear units would sell.
On a second note, the new series of small - mid sized Cat wheel loaders just switched to hydro drives.

 

[countrybumpkin]

I am a seasoned loader operator with HST, and some experience with shuttles. I can absolutely guarantee that with equal machines, I am more efficient than another operator of equal experience who is using a shuttle, mechanical or power. Same goes for box blade and fine grading work. Those are precision applications, and HST wins every time. When it comes to ground engagement work and shear muscle put to the ground, I would take a gear/shuttle tractor over HST. That would include skidding logs out of the woods, row crop work, discing, field cultivation, etc.

Very well said, I couldn't agree more, and I'm partial to shuttles.

 

[gladehound]

I see two different debates going on here.

1 - HST vs. power reverser on otherwise like machines. Most would agree that the gear tractor is marginally better for field work / pulling heavy loads because it get's more power to the ground. For rough loader work they are about the same if the gear operator is very good. For precission loader work, snow blowing or anything that fine variation of speed without impacting PTO speed the HST is better.

2 - HST vs. power reverser of the same price. Here is where it get's more complicated. Field work / pulling heavy loads the bigger power reverser obviously wins. Rough loader work the bigger power reverser wins (like moving piles of anything). For snow blowing, I'd say the bigger power reverser wins. Sure, the HST operator can slow down for the drift, but the power reverser operator either wont have to slow down or if he does it's because he was going faster than the HST operator to start with or using a wider snowblower. For precision loader work the power reverser operator will probably go slower than the HST operator since speed cannot be varied as much. On the other hand, he may use a larger heavier implement / bucket and get more done with each pass. In situations where the task is well below the capabilities of the tactor, HST wins hands down - But otherwise I don't know.

I have not looked closely at the market to see what you can get in a power reverser for the price of an HST at every price point. My budget was $20,000 and at that price point power reverser wins because I'd be down a frame size in an HST.

For the future buyer who is trying to decide between HST / power reverser or other gear tractor, it really depends on what they want to do. I push trees over, skid them, do ocasional landscaping, move a lot of snow (many driveways), maintain a gravel driveway and do hay rides in the fall. Not a single one of these taskes could be done better by going down a frame size and getting HST.

However, if you have multiple operators, want to maximize productivity for a certain weight tractor (trailering considerations) for mostly loader / landscaping work, are doing mostly work for hire and can't afford to have an employee bump something, are not experienced with gear tractor operation, are not concerned with maximizing pulling power to the ground and can afford it, than the HST makes all the sense in the world.

If someone is looking to purchase, they need to figure out what they need their tractor to do, how much they can spend, and at that price point what size tractor / tranny combination makes sense. It is not as simple as HST is better or power reverser is better. In some cases, a gear tractor with no reverser may be best because you can get a beast for the same price as a fancier tractor.