MX5200 Engine Problem

[s219]

I'm pretty sure most Kubotas sold after 2011 were Tier IV Interim. I know the ones I have owned are/were, and there wasn't a horsepower cutoff that I could see. My 2013 L3200 (32 HP) is Tier IV Interim.

Then as 2014/2015 came along, tractors above 26HP had to be Tier IV Final by 2015. Stuff below 26HP stays Tier IV Interim as far as I know.

Tier III would have been phased out by 2011. I don't think anything from Kubota was Tier III after 2011.

 

[Wayne64SS]

Mine's still in my shop from the bucket mods, so tonight when I get home I'll look at the PCV and if it's not open to aptmosphere it will be.

 

[Wayne64SS]

Just thinking.... yall that've had this happen are really fortunate you had HST and you weren't operating a geared tractor. Obviously you could just push in the clutch but less mechanically inclined people might not think about it.

 

[MHarryE]

I'm pretty sure most Kubotas sold after 2011 were Tier IV Interim. I know the ones I have owned are/were, and there wasn't a horsepower cutoff that I could see. My 2013 L3200 (32 HP) is Tier IV Interim.

Then as 2014/2015 came along, tractors above 26HP had to be Tier IV Final by 2015. Stuff below 26HP stays Tier IV Interim as far as I know.

Tier III would have been phased out by 2011. I don't think anything from Kubota was Tier III after 2011.

Once again it depends on gross engine power. 37 - 75 HP engine tractors built 2011 through 2013 were Interim Tier 4 and did not have DPF although they did have EGR. 2014 and up are Tier 4 final EXCEPT Kubota used emissions credits to phase in introduction. A MX5100 is interim Tier 4. A MX 5200 is Tier 4 final. Only the MX 5200 has the oil separator. Same basic block but an entirely different cylinder head, fuel injection system, 4 valves per cylinder instead of 2, and many more changes. The MX5200 is the tractor with which the originator of this thread had a problem. The MX5100 does not have the part that caused the MX5200 problem.

 

[FatTire]

Once again it depends on gross engine power. 37 - 75 HP engine tractors built 2011 through 2013 were Interim Tier 4 and did not have DPF although they did have EGR. 2014 and up are Tier 4 final EXCEPT Kubota used emissions credits to phase in introduction. A MX5100 is interim Tier 4. A MX 5200 is Tier 4 final. Only the MX 5200 has the oil separator. Same basic block but an entirely different cylinder head, fuel injection system, 4 valves per cylinder instead of 2, and many more changes. The MX5200 is the tractor with which the originator of this thread had a problem. The MX5100 does not have the part that caused the MX5200 problem.

If the designs are different it won't matter, but some MX5100 were Tier 3. Mine was manufactured Dec. 2011 and was T3. If you have your OP Manual, look the in Specifications. The engine P/N ended with a "3" and then later they switched to Tier 4i, which was indicated in the Specifications.

 

[MHarryE]

It has been sometime since I purchased my MX5100 (Aug 2011). I was told at the time I purchased my tractor that it was a Tier III emission standards tractor. I assumed that Kubota did not implement interim tier IV, but opted to go to Tier III and then go straight to tier IV. For this power band, engine manufacturers had the option to move from Tier 2 to either Tier 3 or Interim Tier 4 regulations in 2008. Manufacturers that chose to move to Tier 3 in 2008 will skip IT4 and must comply with FT4 regulations in 2012. Manufacturers that chose to move to IT4 in 2008 must comply with FT4 regulations one year later in 2013. Is this incorrect information?

No, the information is not correct; however, the regulations have complications to help manufacturers implement changes over a time period rather than changing everything at once. Regulations are very precise in the dates requirements must be met for each power range. Power ranges have different implementation dates. There is also an option that companies can use to continue building non-compliant equipment for a certain period of time based on credits earned by producing other product that far exceeds the requirement or implementing the emissions requirement early. An example is the Kubota M108. Kubota still sells thiss Tier 3 tractor in the same power range as the Grand X tractors which have been Tier 4 interim since the beginning of 2013. It remains Kubota's low price tractor in this power class and is even more competitive because it does not have Tier 4 additions. The regulations, however, do not allow unlimited duration. A great deal of engineering work is required for each engine installation so providing this grace period allows the companies to smooth out engineering resources. At my company we decided to phase out on model line altogether but now customer demand dictates that we have to spend the money to re-engine - but now that everything else is at Tier 4 final we have available resources.

 

[sixdogs]

There has been a lot of good information in this thread on Tier IV and I finally am able to understand things. Thank you to the contributors.

 

[rScotty]

There has been a lot of good information in this thread on Tier IV and I finally am able to understand things. Thank you to the contributors.

Yes, it sure has been a good thread. I'm feeling lots less ignorant about the tiered emission changes.
My particular thanks to "ccsial" who posted the link to Bell Power Systems brochures back in message #71.
Bell Power Systems, LLC | John Deere & Yanmar Engine Distributor

These publications on Bell Power all seem to be written by John Deere, but they write it so the Tier info is applicable to most engines complying with the tiered emissions program. Deere has always had a strong sense of social obligation and an active educational branch as well. I'm impressed.

Frankly, I wish Kubota did something similar. If anyone knows of any info more specifically Kubota I'm sure we'd all be interested.

BTW, there's a lot more info at Bell Power site. For an overview, take a look at: Product Brochures - Bell Power Systems, LLC


But on the freezing up and crankcase vent problems on the new Kubotas there's still work to be done for that.

I still think we need a way to fix the problem. Right now all the Tier 4 Final engines that have the problem have been under warranty, but that won't always be true in another year. And we still haven't heard word one from Kubota.

So I'd like to see us come up with some simple change that any owner can do to their Tier IV Final tractor engine to protect it from destruction. Something simple that anyone can do until Kubota comes up with a workable solution and makes it available. Surely there are enough good mechanics on this forum to handle that.

Yes, such a change would probably invalidate the Tier IV Final emissions standard....but it is hard to fault an owner if the manufacturer is not being proactive.
what do you think? Any ideas?
rScotty

 

[Wayne64SS]

Here's what my PCV looks like coming out of the top of the valve cover. Can anyone throw up a picture of the one on the MX5200??

 

[wmonroe]

Here's what my PCV looks like coming out of the top of the valve cover. Can anyone throw up a picture of the one on the MX5200??

If I remember right that's what my 5240 looks like also, and it is routed into the intake. I was kicking around the idea of having an old fashion standard vent to atmosphere and this thread may have convinced me.

Any 5200 or L60 owners have a picture of their setup?

 

[sixdogs]

Here's a picture/video off the Kubota MX5200 site showing a video of the engine, or it might be a typical Kubota Tier IV engine.

 

[Grateful11]

OT: There are still some MX5100HST's out there, our son just bought one yesterday. Had to drive 175 miles one way to see it and make the deal. They have one more left. We spent 3 days trying to find a local dealer that could get his hands on one but most dealers have removed them from the computer inventory so other dealers can't see them. There's 5 at one dealer in Ohio and 5 at one dealer in Missouri. The dealer he went with had MX5200's also side by side with the MX5100, open the hood and the difference is huge. I personally can't believe they mounted the fuel tank and the DPF side by side with only a thin heat shield between them.

 

[rabcon]

New motor is at the dealer yesterday. Should have the tractor back next week .

 

[sixdogs]

New motor is at the dealer yesterday. Should have the tractor back next week .

I'd bring a box of donuts with you for the guys in the shop. Maybe even a tip at the end. Yes, it's a warranty thing but your dealer has done all the right things.

 

[sixdogs]

Here's a picture/video off the Kubota MX5200 site showing a video of the engine, or it might be a typical Kubota Tier IV engine.

Not sure where that video went. I'll find it later today. Sorry.

 

[sixdogs]

Not sure where that video went. I'll find it later today. Sorry.

I cannot find the video. I think it was on the Kubota site and it showed a rotating 360 video of an MX5200 engine. Short of that, I did find a photo of the MX5200 engine. Lots of stuff that's hard to recognize.

View attachment 415302






And separately, if you think Kubota had a lot of model numbers, look at Deere.

TractorData.com - John Deere tractors sorted by model

 

[KYDan]

When I was shopping for a new tractor in 2011 one of the things all the dealers mentioned was to get one before the Tier IV standards were required. Apparently that was good advice.

 

[MHarryE]

Latest word I heard is that Kubota dealers are waiting for replacement engines that have been stacked up by the West Coast strike and dealers in the Northern tier of states are frustrated at not being able to serve their customers who have experienced this general engine failure. Does anyone else have similar information?

 

[TomSeller]

Latest word I heard is that Kubota dealers are waiting for replacement engines that have been stacked up by the West Coast strike and dealers in the Northern tier of states are frustrated at not being able to serve their customers who have experienced this general engine failure. Does anyone else have similar information?

I am sure the number of engines Kubota retrofits will far exceed the number of engines they replace. The problem was brought to light to some extent by the bad weather in the east. I certainly doubt there are freighters full of Kubota engines offshore in the west.

 

[rScotty]

I am sure the number of engines Kubota retrofits will far exceed the number of engines they replace. The problem was brought to light to some extent by the bad weather in the east. I certainly doubt there are freighters full of Kubota engines offshore in the west.

"......waiting for replacement engines that have been stacked up by the West Coast strike..."

Tom, I read EHarry's comment as "stacked up"; not "stacks of".

luck, rScotty