Question about steel strength??

   / Question about steel strength??
  • Thread Starter
#71  
Wasn't thinking about the height off the ground-you're right.
Hope you post photos when you are operational.

I checked the difference in weight on the frame tubing. An additaional 1.3 lbs per foot to use the larger.

Not really,,,,,

1) the pic is with the 3-pt at lowest, which is 11 inches above ground. Each tine would need a 10" dogleg to set at ground level.
2) the 2x2x1/8" sq tube would not be strong enough to resist the torsion from a fork tine at the outside ends.
 
   / Question about steel strength?? #72  
Would it be possible to insert a smaller (tight fitting) tube or channel into the 1.5 x 3 tube for maybe the first third of the length?

In general there is never a "tight fitting tube" available, for the most part, only disappointment comes from that classic metal-fab desire. If you weld a 1/4" flatbar on the outside (top and bottom) for the first third the tine can rival the strength of 2x2x1/4. With 1/8" Flatbar at top & bottom third it will be 25% stronger than 2x2x 1/4. Agreed square looks funny for a "fork" but choosing rectangular, your sockets all have to be custom-made because there is no ("seems like never") a tube to fit it, but sometimes you cn fit them with shims welded on. The plans use the 2.5" for the 2x2 sq. tine because that combination is one of the few "fitting" sizes. And even then, you may have to fuss with the weld flash (which is not a big deal on a short receiver) or look for the special "2.53" receiver size. Anyway, square is easier.

On forums, despite no pics of (reasonable) attachments actually failing you will find very little support for building that attachment appropriate to its usage, and huge support for overbuilding - it's just the way members interact on forums. Don't wanna start a "Bull Engineers in full mortal combat" over your project but you might keep in mind that the recommended max 3-pt implement weight for a 7800 is 500 lbs. Your initial desire to leave some capacity for cargo has validity. I will take a guess that the 7800 is unable to lift 900 lbs (two 55 gal drums of water) but I bet Kubota doesn't want it traveling with more than 500 lbs. Just IMHO.

To weld 1/4" thick material be sure to bevel the joints otherwise you won't get the additional strength you paid for (and will carry around). Unless you have capacity to weld with 3/16" rod etc. :D Do you have a welder that can penetrate 1/4" - thats a tall order for a newbie. There are times to overbuild and times not to, and not having an understanding of material strengths, that alone may be a good reason to overbuild.

If built per the drawing ----Sodo---- would use 1/8" material for a compact tractor and don't lend it out. If you prefer overbuilt, 3/16" will be 50% heavier, cost 50% more, and be more than 50% stronger, handle the next size bigger tractor etc seems quite reasonable and prudent. Sizing that for a tractor with 1 ton lift capacity when the tractor you have weighs only 1800 lb only has downsides, (to me).
 
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   / Question about steel strength?? #73  
I'd buy steel locally. But I have some good suppliers. Doesnt hurt to check both online and locally.

Fabbing up a receiver shouldnt be hard. Or you can just buy some 5x3x1/2 wall tubing. Its 20# per ft, but you would only need a foot or so. (6" each side)
 
   / Question about steel strength??
  • Thread Starter
#74  
In general there is never a "tight fitting tube" available, for the most part, only disappointment comes from that classic metal-fab desire. If you weld a 1/4" flatbar on the outside (top and bottom) for the first third the tine can rival the strength of 2x2x1/4. With 1/8" Flatbar at top & bottom third it will be 25% stronger than 2x2x 1/4. Agreed square looks funny for a "fork" but choosing rectangular, your sockets all have to be custom-made because there is no ("seems like never") a tube to fit it, but sometimes you cn fit them with shims welded on. The plans use the 2.5" for the 2x2 sq. tine because that combination is one of the few "fitting" sizes. And even then, you may have to fuss with the weld flash (which is not a big deal on a short receiver) or look for the special "2.53" receiver size. Anyway, square is easier.

**What are the size options for the square 2.53 tubing that I can use as receivers. This seems like a very good option. Is there a 2.53 option for the 3x1 1/2, 2x2, 2x3, or 2x4? The avilabilty may make it easier to decide on fork dimension.

On forums, despite no pics of (reasonable) attachments actually failing you will find very little support for building that attachment appropriate to its usage, and huge support for overbuilding - it's just the way members interact on forums. Don't wanna start a "Bull Engineers in full mortal combat" over your project but you might keep in mind that the recommended max 3-pt implement weight for a 7800 is 500 lbs. Your initial desire to leave some capacity for cargo has validity. I will take a guess that the 7800 is unable to lift 900 lbs (two 55 gal drums of water) but I bet Kubota doesn't want it traveling with more than 500 lbs. Just IMHO.

**Where does the 1650 lb lift capacity come into this? I'm confused. After building this at 160-190lbs, I will only be able to lift approx. 700 lbs, and haul much less? This is not good.

To weld 1/4" thick material be sure to bevel the joints otherwise you won't get the additional strength you paid for (and will carry around). Unless you have capacity to weld with 3/16" rod etc. :D Do you have a welder that can penetrate 1/4" - thats a tall order for a newbie. There are times to overbuild and times not to, and not having an understanding of material strengths, that alone may be a good reason to overbuild.

*Fortunately I have a neighbor who was has welded for years and has a very large welder. He hires out at very affordable rates and is going to do this fabrication. I would have to ask him the above.

If built per the drawing ----Sodo---- would use 1/8" material for a compact tractor and don't lend it out. If you prefer overbuilt, 3/16" will be 50% heavier, cost 50% more, and be more than 50% stronger, handle the next size bigger tractor etc seems quite reasonable and prudent. Sizing that for a tractor with 1 ton lift capacity when the tractor you have weighs only 1800 lb only has downsides, (to me).

**Sodo would construct the frame with 2 1/2" square tubing @ 1/8" thickness, in place of the 3/16 called for in the plans? Lighter and less costly is good...stength?
I know you had mentioned that the plans were overkill for the B7800. Are there other areas that you would consider scaling down, as well?
Just went to Sagnaw Pipe's site and I don't see an option for the 1/8 thickness?
 
   / Question about steel strength??
  • Thread Starter
#75  
LD1- Sorry, I am not see how to use the suggested 5x3x 1/2" tubing for the rece

ivers??
I'd buy steel locally. But I have some good suppliers. Doesnt hurt to check both online and locally.

Fabbing up a receiver shouldnt be hard. Or you can just buy some 5x3x1/2 wall tubing. Its 20# per ft, but you would only need a foot or so. (6" each side)
 
   / Question about steel strength?? #76  
I wonder if the "2.53 receiver size" is the ONLY sq tube internal special size

I'd make my frame from 2 x 2 x 1/8, and the tines too (maybe 3/16 tines). But what I'd do is a little problematic,,,,, because I'd build it, do a little testing and if not strong enough I'd beef it up.

If you have a little time, try to research what is the real lifting capacity of the B7800 at a point about 28 inches behind the hitch, before sizing your materials. The 3-pt is a parallelogram, but I think there is a small multiplier, for example a brush hog lifts up at an angle. This is something I may be able to help with as I now have a receiver socket on mine :D If can think of some heavy (known) weight and a way to lift on it, I'd try it for you.
 
   / Question about steel strength??
  • Thread Starter
#77  
Sounds good-thanks.
 
   / Question about steel strength?? #78  
FYI

My forks made from 3x 1-1/2 Tubing for my L39 Bent a bit in this application. Time to straighten them with my excavator.
 

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   / Question about steel strength?? #79  
5x3x1/2 has an ID of 2x4. If you used 2x4 tube for the forks, they could be inserted and removed same as the plans.
 
   / Question about steel strength?? #80  
That is not how a 3PH works.

A 3PH is a parallelogram style linkage. There is no loss of lift force IF it is kept to a true parallel lift. Which is indeed possible on lots of hitches with adjustment of the linkages and toplink.

You do loose a little force the father from parallel the lift is, but it isnt like a simple lever. If you set up the 3PH so that the pallet forks raise in a level manner (heal raises the exact same amount as the tip), the capacity at the tip is the same as at the ball ends. (provided you have enough weight on the front of the tractor to keep it on the ground).

That's not correct. Even if it is a true parallelogram style linkage the farther out from the fulcrum the load is the more effort it takes to lift it. What changes is the hydraulic pressure required to lift it. All three point hitches that I have seen work on the principal of a Third Class lever although there is nothing to prevent them from being designed as First Class levers except possible physical space limitations. This diagram is an example of the typical 3PH.

632034d1383677697-unimog-u1700ag-my-new-unimog-swing.jpg
 

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