Installed new loader valve - now 3pt lift won't work

[J_J]

Today, I went back out and tried again.. after reading your replies.. I believe I do understand how you guys are trying to tell me to do it. Except for the 3rd hose ? Is that my problem ? Well I took more pictures of how I did it again, after doing it again, it neither the loader or 3pt works. I also took a pic of my old valve.

Me holding the PB hex plug up to the "C" port where I installed it.

Heres the output hose hooked up to the "C" port after the hex plug installed. Input hose is going in the left side of the valve, Output hose is hooked to the "C" port and going back down to the 3pt control valve. Just 2 hoses.. no 3rd hose.

Heres my old valve that I replaced.. It worked fine, except that the bucket was dropping slowly, and I thought the pressure was bleeding though the valve. I tried putting in new o-rings with no luck. 3pt worked fine and the loader operated fine. It only had 2 hoses.. one "in" and one "out". I do see a port plugged off labled "PB"

Who ever hooked up your loader the first time did it wrong.

Just about all manufacturers say to run the tank port to tank period.

Yes, it will work until it won't, as most tank ports are only rated to about 500 psi.

You are confusing OUTPUT hose with tank hose.

Your OUTPUT hose would be the pressure/PB hose in port C

 

[Tx Jim]

J_J
With only 6 gpm flow why is a PB even needed on this tractor? Also according to OP hyd's operated fine with old valve with evidently no PB connected. Back in the mid 60's through the mid 80's I added hyd valves to JD 2 cylinder tractors & Farmall H & M's with low hyd gpm's utilizing only pressure & return ports IE no PB connected and these units operated fine.

 

[J_J]

I understand about older tractors only using two lines on a valve .

It puzzles me why the tank port is not made the same specs as the IN port or PB port..

GPM has nothing to do with PB.

GPM is the flow that carries the potential pressure, and determines the operating speed.

PB is power Beyond or carry over, meaning it is a pressure line, and any port and fittings should be able to with stand the high pressure.

Then probably busted a lot of valves, and didn't know why, or, the valves were made with the same specs on the IN and the tank port.

I believe the PB/Carry Over port came about because of the need to separate the pump flow from the cyl expended fluid.

An analogy,

My pet rattler did not bite me in 5 years, but last week he bit me and my hand rotted off. d*m it, I am pissed.

 

[Tx Jim]

I understand about older tractors only using two lines on a valve .
GPM has nothing to do with PB.
PB is power Beyond or carry over, meaning it is a pressure line, and any port and fittings should be able to with stand the high pressure.
Then probably busted a lot of valves, and didn't know why, or, the valves were made with the same specs on the IN and the tank port.

I know I'm getting old but I don't remember all those bursted hyd valves with no PB plumbed to tractor that you allure to on older hyd systems. I guess hyd's operate different in Florida than Texas.

BUT getting down to the "nitty gritty" I still think that if the OP plugs the PB port on the new hyd valve and attaches the out(tank) port to the tractor the same way as the old valve that he's replacing that the new valve will work the FEL fine as well as the 3 pt hitch.

FYI Rattlesnake tastes GOOD

 

[J_J]

{ I guess hyd's operate different in Florida than Texas. }

They sure do, and you should know that.

If he is going to use the old way, tank to 3pt, as you are suggesting, then he better know what else to do. He might just make himself a CC valve and blow up the pump.

I wonder why they call that port a tank port???????????

Then let him try and get warranty on that valve if it breaks. They know exactly what to look for. You know, cracked housing, blown seals, etc.

If one pays good money for a valve, why not connect it correctly.

Keep on trying JIM.

 

[Tx Jim]

J_J
Keep trying what? Just because I don't agree with all you state about hydraulic's? All I'm trying to do same as you is help the OP get his hyd's operating. Maybe it's not according to your thinking but answer me one thing. How did the OP's original hyd FEL valve operate attached to tractor hyd's without cracking the housing for all those years with no PB attached to tractor??????? I guess he was just LUCKY.

Could you PLEASE tell me what year tractor manufacturers introduced PB OR PBY as I don't remember tractors in the 80's having it???????
Thank you,Jim

 

[J_J]

This is what I know about PB or Carry Over.

Best definition I could find and never did find out when first used.

POWER BEYOND (Also referred to as high-pressure carryover), obtained by using a sleeved outlet that carries oil under
pressure directly from the open center passageway of a control valve to the inlet of a down-stream control valve bank. This sleeve outlet
prevents back pressure on the exhaust or return passage of a control valve which normally is not designed to take high pressure.
This option also prevents back pressure on spool seals and also does not put back pressure on the built-in relief valve which, if allowed,
tends to increase the relief valve opening point to the total of the relief valve’s original setting by the amount of back pressure in the
control valve’s exhaust passage. This option is often used to obtain more valve sections or spools than normally obtainable by one
control valve bank, or used when additional spools need to be added in the field. Still another use is to obtain a circuit in which it is
desirable to have certain valve functions take “Priority” on flow. This is accomplished by having those functions requiring “Priority” flow
be controlled by the upstream valve bank equipped with power beyond, then whenever a spool of the power beyond valve is fully activated,
this will take all oil from pump and stop the flow of oil to any downstream valve until the power beyond valve spool is returned
to neutral, at which time oil will again flow to the downstream valves. NOTE: It is always necessary to provide a tank return port
on all power beyond valves in order that the “return” or “dump” oil from a cylinder or motor can be returned to the tank.

What you going to do JIM when the manufacturer says to run his tank port to tank. You just make up your own set of rules.

Since you have a lot of the old books and manuals, look up the specs on some of the old valves and you might have your answer.

Maybe the valves were made to handle the pressure.

Maybe they were lucky.

Maybe no body gives a rats *ss as to how things are supposed to work.

On a today modern hyd valve from , say Prince, are you really going to run the tank line, which is only rated to 500 psi to the next valve that could potentially cause 3000 psi to develop in the supply line. Perhaps you would, but I would not.

Baling wire has fixed many things, but is it correct or just a band aid for what really should be done and done right.

You do know I am just so sorry you don't like the things I say. But rules are rules.

 

[J_J]

J_J
Keep trying what? Just because I don't agree with all you state about hydraulic's? All I'm trying to do same as you is help the OP get his hyd's operating. Maybe it's not according to your thinking but answer me one thing. How did the OP's original hyd FEL valve operate attached to tractor hyd's without cracking the housing for all those years with no PB attached to tractor??????? I guess he was just LUCKY.

Could you PLEASE tell me what year tractor manufacturers introduced PB OR PBY as I don't remember tractors in the 80's having it???????
Thank you,Jim

If he would have listen to me, his tractor would be fixed by now.

Don't know when PB was first used.

Yes, he was lucky. His old valve was probably leaking like a sieve.

 

[Tx Jim]

T

POWER BEYOND (Also referred to as high-pressure carryover),

You do know I am just so sorry you don't like the things I say. But rules are rules.

J_J
1st off the tractors I mentioned installing a hyd spool valve without power beyond were low pressure hyd systems compared to today's tractors.

2nd I never stated I didn't like what you state but sometimes I just choose to not always agree with what you state ESPECIALLY when it comes to closed center hyd's but that's not what this thread is about.

3rd I think amount off hyd pressure & flow will determine if a PBY is actually required.

4th I'm sorry if you get offended from me questioning what you state but after all this is called a DISCUSSION FORUM.

5th Why does a log splitter not need a PBY?

Have a nice day,Jim

 

[J_J]

Jim said Why does a log splitter not need a PBY?

Because the return/OUT always goes back top tank.

Prince LS-3000 = Tank line 150 psi

Do you not ever look at the tank line pressure.

Actually if you are going to run another valve, be it wedge lift, log lift, etc, then the log splitter valve does need a PB.

1 SPOOL PRINCE AUTO CYCLE LOG SPLITTER VALVE W/PB