Traction Using a Tractor on Mountain Property

Grandad4 · Apr 26, 2015

Lots of good comments about operating a tractor on hills. It can be done within reasonable limits. Good equipment in good condition is important, even more important is good judgment from the operator and never becoming complacent or overconfident (Too many old-timers end their days in avoidable tractor roll-overs). If you're just getting into tractors, learn your skills and the capability of your equipment in stages and don't plunge head-first into difficult situations (double-meaning intentional :thumbsup

. Whatever equipment you choose, please be safe!

Sysop · Apr 26, 2015

vtsnowedin said:
That CAT excavator probably has a center of gravity that is eight feet above the ground. It is the ratio of the height of the COG to the horizontal distance out to the outer edge of the tire (or track) that counts.
You didn't say what model Husqvarna lawn tractor but if you pick a typical one you can find dimensions on like the YTH2348LS you will find it weighs 458 lbs and is 42 inches high and 50 inches wide. That 50 inches is the mower deck so the tires out to out would be less, maybe 46 inches. It has 20x8-8 rear tires so the rear axle is 18 inches off the ground and the COG with you sitting on it is about 24 inches off the ground.
So your ratio would be 23 inches of width divided by 24 of height would be 0.96.
My tractor as set up is 94 inches wide so half of that is 47 inches and it measures 32 inches from the ground to the top of the center casting between the operators feet which is above where the COG is with the fluid in the tires but using that. 47 / 32 =1.47 so mine is more stable then yours. :silly:
Now if I take the spacers off and set the tires in to the narrowest workable setting the half width is just 35 inches and I'd get 35/32=1.09 which is a lot closer to your tractor so the set up is what makes the difference. Notice the weight of the tractors doesn't factor into this ratio except for determining exactly where the COG of the tractor is. If your adding weight you want to add it somewhere low to lower the COG not pile it on top and increase the COG.

LOL
Wow what an effort. You left out the biggest variable... Unless you're talking about a machine large enough to not be affected by a 150-250 lbs person on the seat (which is getting up near 10k or so), those sort of calculations are mostly sorta useless. The only thing that keeps a 458lbs machine on all four rubbers on hilly terrain is using your body weight to keep it on the ground (leaning your weight up the hills, pressing into the floorboards with your feet to support some of your weight lower on the machine, etc.). The heavier the machine, the less your body weight will affect it, but on small machines that big sack of water sloshing around in the operator's seat is the biggest thing to factor on the COG. Bad part is it isn't a variable that is easily calculated as some of us slosh around more than others...

cqaigy2 · Apr 26, 2015

I use one of the smaller 422 power-tracs on my property. I mainly use it to cut brush, haul firewood and level out smallish areas. It's pretty stable on hillsides, i can go thru and in between trees and is very easy on the ground. Probably would get the 425 with the bigger engine and a little more power at the wheels. It's not for plowing or that type of tractor work.

I have a smallish place, 7.5 acres and none of it is flat. I leave much of it wild because i like it that way and there are a few areas that i could safely traverse, but would probably have to leave it there because of lack of power to pull it's self out.

prs · Apr 26, 2015

The nice chart presented above is one of several on that same web page. Note the bottom line denotes grade and degrees, but the third column is not noted, it should be noted as SLOPE. A twenty grade is common in Kansas, but a 20 slope is way more steep. A thirty slope is easily crossed with most cuts or uts or small farm tractors, but a 30 slope is quite a different color of horse. A 30 slope is close to an angle of 57 degrees or more.

However, given the wide variety of work the OP states to be done and maintained, I would definitely get 4 wheel compact utility tractor of about 25 to 30 horse with a spacer kit for rear wheels and ballast all four tires. Get a good grade box and an easy to R&R front end loader.

prs
http://www.1728.org/gradient4.gif

GirlWhoWantsTractor · Apr 26, 2015

vtsnowedin said:
That CAT excavator probably has a center of gravity that is eight feet above the ground. It is the ratio of the height of the COG to the horizontal distance out to the outer edge of the tire (or track) that counts.
You didn't say what model Husqvarna lawn tractor but if you pick a typical one you can find dimensions on like the YTH2348LS you will find it weighs 458 lbs and is 42 inches high and 50 inches wide. That 50 inches is the mower deck so the tires out to out would be less, maybe 46 inches. It has 20x8-8 rear tires so the rear axle is 18 inches off the ground and the COG with you sitting on it is about 24 inches off the ground.
So your ratio would be 23 inches of width divided by 24 of height would be 0.96.
My tractor as set up is 94 inches wide so half of that is 47 inches and it measures 32 inches from the ground to the top of the center casting between the operators feet which is above where the COG is with the fluid in the tires but using that. 47 / 32 =1.47 so mine is more stable then yours. :silly:
Now if I take the spacers off and set the tires in to the narrowest workable setting the half width is just 35 inches and I'd get 35/32=1.09 which is a lot closer to your tractor so the set up is what makes the difference. Notice the weight of the tractors doesn't factor into this ratio except for determining exactly where the COG of the tractor is. If your adding weight you want to add it somewhere low to lower the COG not pile it on top and increase the COG.

Thank you for doing that calculation.

What about a Mahindra Max 24? Length 104.1, Width 50.7, Tires front 20 x 8 - 10, rear 27 x 12.5 - 15. Weight of tractor: 1,693, FEL: 545, BH: 766. Sounds like if you add a MMM that would add to stability since the weight would be low.
Not sure if the wheels can be mounted to increase width on these, but if you added the Rimguard that would also help the stability. Then suitcase weights as well?

redman135 · Apr 26, 2015

Hullo girlwhowantstractor, there is one option the has not been mentioned.Dual wheels. They make a huge difference to the stability AND traction. The ride is also better as you have a bridge effect over holes so are less likely to be upset on hill sides. The extra rubber means you will tear the paddocks up less than single rear tyres do. Front tyre generally can't be widened to match the max wide rear wheel setting in my experience, this is not a problem with duals,so you are fight the steering to stay in the wheel ruts. If you do fall of the hillside, duals mean you are far more likely to slide ,not roll.
My farm is similar contour to the photo in sysop's post.
I carry my loader down low like vtsnowedin (see second picture) for stability, just remember to crowd the bucket back so if you do hit the ground it will slide, and not dig in. Your hide , your call.
Lastly, happy tractoring.

blucoondawg · Apr 26, 2015

My only issue with the max and any other comparable brand name sub compact is that they have a pretty high price tag compared to their ability. Some of the heavier work you have to do may be to much for a small machine when you start talking about large trees and land clearing or building roads. A backhoe on a tractor that size as far as I am concerned is useless, not to ruffle any feathers but you guys simply cannot dig very well in hard ground especially in rocky soil with a machine that small. I have a kioti dk50se hydro with a Woods bh90x hoe, which is substantially larger than the machine you are considering, and it has no problem lifting my machine off the ground and moving it around when in harsher soil. Doing harsher work like this with a machine that is too small is hard on equipment and in some situations you won't even be able to accomplish the work you need done. For the money you will pay for a scut you can find a cut or utility tractor that is much more capable, even if you go used for a tractor that is well taken care of it will be worth it.

vtsnowedin · Apr 26, 2015

GirlWhoWantsTractor said:
Thank you for doing that calculation.

What about a Mahindra Max 24? Length 104.1, Width 50.7, Tires front 20 x 8 - 10, rear 27 x 12.5 - 15. Weight of tractor: 1,693, FEL: 545, BH: 766. Sounds like if you add a MMM that would add to stability since the weight would be low.
Not sure if the wheels can be mounted to increase width on these, but if you added the Rimguard that would also help the stability. Then suitcase weights as well?

When it comes to Mahindra tractors what I know for sure amounts to exactly zero. I poked around a bit trying to answer your question and found the same info you gave me but not much else. I could not find if the rims were adjustable for width or if spacers were available or recommended. On this site.
Max 24 4WD HST | Mahindra
I noticed that for AG tires they use 9.5x 16 on the rear while the three they compare it to use 26x12-12.
The larger the tire the more Rimguard you can put in it. I'm not sure that carries through the other tire types.( and perhaps it is a misprint)
When you mount a loader you take the suitcase weights off. It is one or the other not both. Yes a MMM is low weight that lowers COG. A back hoe is a gommin thing that is often in the way and it's COG depends on what position you have it in. I''d spend the same money on renting a mini excavator a couple of weeks a summer and get more done with it and have your tractor free to back fill and tend the excavator.

vtsnowedin · Apr 26, 2015

Sysop said:
LOL
Wow what an effort. You left out the biggest variable... Unless you're talking about a machine large enough to not be affected by a 150-250 lbs person on the seat (which is getting up near 10k or so), those sort of calculations are mostly sorta useless. The only thing that keeps a 458lbs machine on all four rubbers on hilly terrain is using your body weight to keep it on the ground (leaning your weight up the hills, pressing into the floorboards with your feet to support some of your weight lower on the machine, etc.). The heavier the machine, the less your body weight will affect it, but on small machines that big sack of water sloshing around in the operator's seat is the biggest thing to factor on the COG. Bad part is it isn't a variable that is easily calculated as some of us slosh around more than others...

:laughing: With my tractor weighing 7500+/- depending on if it has chains on I don't give much thought to the mass my 250 pounds adds to the equation. Now perhaps Girlwhowantsatractor only weighs 105 soaking wet and need to put on a few pounds to keep her lawn tractor stable but I choose not to suggest that.