Traction Using a Tractor on Mountain Property

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I was leaning towards the Max myself, but ended up with the BX. I think either are fine machines.

What made you decide to go with the BX over the Max, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[millsan1]

Kubota approved me and Mahindra did not, LOL.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Kubota approved me and Mahindra did not, LOL.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Quotes so far:
$19,500 for an eMax 25 w/ FEL and BH delivered no sales tax.
$19,500 for an eMax 22 w/ FEL, BH & MMM (which we don't want) delivered but plus $1,400 sales tax.

 

[SpringHollow]

The Power track are not for everyone but some perceptions are wrong.

Ground clearance - the tractors that I know that are on your list can not go over anything the Power Trac can not. I suspect the opposite to be closer to the truth.

Non-standard Implements - many of us use standard 3 pt and skid steer attachments on our PT's. This requires a 3 pt adapter (with or without a motor) or welding plates on the attachments. We also make or modify our own. For example, I use the following 3 pt attachments: York Rake, Box Blade, Lifting Boom, Pallet Mover. I use the following skid steer: mini hoe, swinging mini hoe, The following are PT attachments: Grapple/Rock Bucket, Stump Grinder, Broom, 8' brush hog, sold the boom mower that I had never used. The PT attachments I have are because they came with the used tractor. The 8' brush hog is likely the only one I would have bought. Home/Shop Built attachments: LM Bucket, forks, 2" receiver, Snow V-Plow I am sure I am missing some and a bunch more are waiting for time to make them.

These tractors are great if you like to get your hands dirty and modify them. I have added a hydraulic filtration system, modified floatation seat, additional hydraulic circuits, etc.

No offense taken. There are certainly reasons not to get a PT, for example. Just make sure the reasons you are using are accurate. This is true of all of the tractors you are considering. BTW, I would have thought most tractors can lift their front end up with the FEL. I certainly can on my PT and could on all of my Ford/New Hollands. Not sure about all of the models you are looking at. I am mostly familiar with CUT's.

Ken

 

[Sysop]

Choice seems simple to me. Go with the 25 for less money, more power, and not getting stuff you're not going to use anyway.

 

[Coyote machine]

Wait a minute! Where is Kioti in the running? I strongly urge you to look at their 22-30 HP class tractors before making any decision. Why? Because they are some of the best built, sturdy, featured tractors in the class of tractors you are looking at. They are very reasonable in price compared to any of the brands you cite below. Their warranty is in most cases longer than others too.
Please don't make a decision without checking into them, either in person at a local dealer, or at the very minimum, on their web site to compare them feature for feature. I guarantee they will impress you with what they offer.
Let us know what you decide.
Good luck.

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. We're getting close to a decision. So, because of our terrain, we're looking for a smaller tractor (22-24 HP) to get through tight spaces, but with enough weight and wide enough wheelbase to handle the grades, and enough power to handle our heavy clay/rock soil. FEL & BH. HST because accidentally jerking the tractor is gonna hit a tree or put a wheel somewhere I don't want it to go. 4WD of course. Cat 1 hitch. Used is not an option.

Tractors I have looked at so far:

1. Yanmar. Much cheaper than the competition but also lighter weight, less power, and no Cat 1 hitch. Not impressed.
2. Nortrac. Much cheaper than the competition and specs are good; heavy tractor w/ good power. However, no HST available, plus some concerns about maintenance/reliability.
3. Mahindra. Heavier and more powerful than the others; also lower and wider. The only 22HP tractor we saw that could lift itself off the ground w/ the FEL at idle speed.
4. Kubota, New Holland. These are relatively high, narrow tractors (not good for the hills), plus less power/weight than the Mahindra. I'm also hearing some RECENT issues w/ build quality & reliability.
5. PowerTrac. Small, low and powerful for its size. However, the bigger ones cost as much as a SCUT and are cash only. Extreme lack of ground clearance may be a problem too.
6. Simplicity Legacy. A kind of lawn mower on steroids. Has a lot of nice features and mows like a dream. But mowing isn't a priority for us; we live in the mountains and don't care about stripes, and when you add the FEL and BH it costs more than a SCUT w/ less power. Makes no sense.
7. John Deere. Saw these a couple days ago. I don't understand these new JDs. Extremely high tractor, no Cat 1 hitch, less powerful than the competition. Huge bolted metal plates everywhere, which make it look way beefier than the competition, yet it's a lighter tractor. How is that possible? True, there's a lot of flimsy plastic I could easily flex with my hand, and someone told me a lot of that metal is cast aluminum so maybe that's it. Probably the tractor least suited to our needs.
8. LS. Another high, narrow tractor. Good value though.

So, I guess we keep coming back to the Mahindra Max and eMax 22-24. I've looked at spec sheets till I'm dizzy and they just seem to beat every other tractor in their class for our specific needs.

I don't want to offend anyone with these comments. I'm simply a first-time tractor buyer with no brand loyalty, and these are my first impressions of these tractors (some of which may be wrong) plus "doing the math" based on spec sheets.

 

[JRobyn]

..... can anyone tell me what these rod-like things are--axle? steering control arms?--and how sturdy? Whatever they are, they're gonna be in danger of hitting rocks, stumps, dirt. This is one thing I look at on every tractor.
View attachment 423051

The shiny horizontal rod is the hydraulic steering ram (cylinder) with the steering knuckle on the end. Since they are near the center of the wheel, they are somewhat difficult to hit since the wheel will climb obstacles and tend to keep the ram/knuckle clear. But it IS possible to catch them on something like a stump or a rock that the wheel just misses. They are very solid but CAN be bent.

- Jay

 

[woodlandfarms]

My advice if you are looking at a conventional tractor and have narrowed it down is to go back to the dealer and determine which is the best dealer. Tractors will be more or less the same IMO, but dealerships can make or break your deal. Tractors can and will break down. You will break the tractor, and you will need parts and service. So look at how well stocked your dealer is and how they deal with service. Call people who use the dealer (try and not get the dealers recommendations but just ask people as they show up). In the end it is the dealer that diffentiates the tractor, not the tractor itself.

Oh, and as for your note on ground clearance on the PT. You have that completely wrong. Sorry, not trying to pick a fight, the PT has a lot wrong with it, but your assumption ground clearance is an issue would be incorrect. The other thing is that the bottom of the PT is flat steel, not exposed drive train. Nothing to damage or hang up on.

 

[Gafn]

I owned a BX2660 for 2 years... Without any issues, started every time, it is an OK lawn mower

Consider the following:

1) Noise when mowing - I had to wear earplugs, as the 2500 - 2700 rpm require to hit 540 on the PTO makes that little 3 cylinder scream
2) Attachment like a wood splitter - the hydro pump is small, and the power steering takes a few gpm, so not much left for hydro attachments
3) ground clearance is low - even with the MMM off
4) the tractor only weights 1348 ish lbs - the 26 HP and lack of weight makes for tire spinning fun.... but not moving much, like a truck stuck in mud, tractor in 4wd low - just spins tires, no weight for traction, get a full blade box of damp drive way stone and it just digs in wont pull due to not enough weight
5) the loader is the LA 243 that is in kilos so multiply that by 2.2lbs and you get you max lift weight (534 lbs) consider what you will use the loader for, such as damp stone from the driveway, a full load of that feels real unstable especially on slopes- but this is just my opinion
6) Steep slopes will require you to stop and shift down to low gear to prevent stalling on the hill
7) MMM deck is a pressed metal deck - the leading edge is a grove that collects wet grass leaves and dirt = bad design - if you dont clean this every time, it will induce rusting if you pain has a chip
8) cleaning of the MMM deck is a PITA, as the clearance is so low, and teh parts are so close together, you can not simply blow out the dry grass from one side, you end up chasing the grass back and forth till you think you have it all clean, pull covers and you still have a mass of grass stuck to the gear box
9) Towing a small debris trailer down a hill - even in 4wd the rear of the tractor will get pushed by the weight of the trailer and start to come around on you - this was constant, above 500lbs on the trailer - this is a bad feeling when you are half way down a hill and the rear end starts to race the front end...

one last thing - my mowing area is not smooth, and the little tires that come on the BX barely have any sidewall = no flex = bounce the chit out of you when mowing, a tractor's only suspension is side wall flex, and the BX came with the industrial tires R2 I think - not sure, and man mow for 4 hours and you have been beat to chit.

Now as a mower - it does a real nice job, it is extremely maneuverable, can mow at a fair rate of speed, the controls are laid out real nice.
Without the FEL this is a stable little mower that can cut anything within reason that you want.
With the FEL the same side hill cuts feel bad Again just my opinion.


This is just my opinion, and the reason I no longer have this tractor.
I went up to a 4000lbs tractor, and all of my complaints are gone now.

 

[Gafn]

Quotes so far:
$19,500 for an eMax 25 w/ FEL and BH delivered no sales tax.
$19,500 for an eMax 22 w/ FEL, BH & MMM (which we don't want) delivered but plus $1,400 sales tax.

That is a lot of money for 25hp.
On Tractorhouse right now there are 2015 Branson 35 hp with BH, and FEL for 24,900, take off the BH and I have seen prices under $20k.
The prices on the Kioti for the larger heavier tractors are in the same range...

I only say this because I made the mistake of buying on of the S-CUT, and after 2 years of use I was selling it to get into a larger tractor with more weight (see my post # 110).
In two years I ended up using it only as a mower, as the FEL was nearly useless and spent most of it's time removed.
In two years I put 96 total hours on it. I have had my Branson 3520h now ... well I have not even made the first payment on it yet, and have clocked over 20 hours.
If there is some way you can borrow or test drive the tractors at your place first - I would suggest that, having a little over sized tractor is not as much a problem as having one that is undersized.

 

[drajj5]

Did you get the opportunity to get some seat time (playing with one at the lot)?

It seems as though you have made/narrowed your choices. I cannot tell you how well the Max 25 performs but I would post over in the Mahindra section any questions as I feel confident those who own one will give you the "down and dirty" of their ownership.

Folk's here are proud of what they own, and will sometimes be biased on their recommendations. Personally "I will never wheelbarrow another load of anything ever again" and am thankful to have something other than a shovel to move earth. I get agitated if I have to get off the tractor to rake the dirt level after moving dirt- smooth it out. Once you own a implement (no matter what brand) you will instantly be spoiled. I am!!

I agree with most suggestions, all will fall short and not do "everything". You should choose something that fits your land and have the most uses for.

As for the Backhoe, I think it is the MOST versatile tool that you can add. I did get one factory installed and have no regrets at all. Digging is easier, and makes the soil soft for your loader to scoop up. My wife has planted trees with it, and has dipped it in her flower garden to 'break up the soil'. I have dug stumps, lots of stumps, and even made some shady 55 gallon drum campsite septic systems. Even used it to dig water lines and set underground power in various locations on my property. No mattock here, not anymore.... I would not be without one, but that is just me:thumbsup:

 

[Creamer]

I owned a BX2660 for 2 years... Without any issues, started every time, it is an OK lawn mower

Consider the following:

1) Noise when mowing - I had to wear earplugs, as the 2500 - 2700 rpm require to hit 540 on the PTO makes that little 3 cylinder scream
2) Attachment like a wood splitter - the hydro pump is small, and the power steering takes a few gpm, so not much left for hydro attachments
3) ground clearance is low - even with the MMM off
4) the tractor only weights 1348 ish lbs - the 26 HP and lack of weight makes for tire spinning fun.... but not moving much, like a truck stuck in mud, tractor in 4wd low - just spins tires, no weight for traction, get a full blade box of damp drive way stone and it just digs in wont pull due to not enough weight
5) the loader is the LA 243 that is in kilos so multiply that by 2.2lbs and you get you max lift weight (534 lbs) consider what you will use the loader for, such as damp stone from the driveway, a full load of that feels real unstable especially on slopes- but this is just my opinion
6) Steep slopes will require you to stop and shift down to low gear to prevent stalling on the hill
7) MMM deck is a pressed metal deck - the leading edge is a grove that collects wet grass leaves and dirt = bad design - if you dont clean this every time, it will induce rusting if you pain has a chip
8) cleaning of the MMM deck is a PITA, as the clearance is so low, and teh parts are so close together, you can not simply blow out the dry grass from one side, you end up chasing the grass back and forth till you think you have it all clean, pull covers and you still have a mass of grass stuck to the gear box
9) Towing a small debris trailer down a hill - even in 4wd the rear of the tractor will get pushed by the weight of the trailer and start to come around on you - this was constant, above 500lbs on the trailer - this is a bad feeling when you are half way down a hill and the rear end starts to race the front end...

one last thing - my mowing area is not smooth, and the little tires that come on the BX barely have any sidewall = no flex = bounce the chit out of you when mowing, a tractor's only suspension is side wall flex, and the BX came with the industrial tires R2 I think - not sure, and man mow for 4 hours and you have been beat to chit.

Now as a mower - it does a real nice job, it is extremely maneuverable, can mow at a fair rate of speed, the controls are laid out real nice.
Without the FEL this is a stable little mower that can cut anything within reason that you want.
With the FEL the same side hill cuts feel bad Again just my opinion.


This is just my opinion, and the reason I no longer have this tractor.
I went up to a 4000lbs tractor, and all of my complaints are gone now.

X2 I am not sure you need to go to a 4000 lb tractor but for what you are doing you need at least a CUT. While SCUTs are good and I have nothing against them - if you get a CUT you will never say this is too big I wish I had a little one.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

This has been quite a process. When it's a big purchase I do like to give it some time, and this is my first tractor so there's a big learning curve. In short, have now reconsidered the backhoe. First of all, couldn't locate the exact model I wanted (Max) equipped with both FEL and BH (it seems you have to buy the Mahindra equipped the way it stands on the lot). Was almost ready to close the deal on my "second choice" (eMax) and then realized with a good back blade that can tilt, angle, and offset, I can probably do most of my ditch work. Hopefully I can find a Max with just the FEL. Plus save a few thousand dollars. Plus I'm more comfortable pulling a blade than I would be with a BH. Win win win. "When the way you want to go doesn't work out, repeatedly, maybe you're going the wrong way."

Won't know until Monday, as everything shuts down around here between Fri afternoon and Monday morning. Life in the sticks!

I want to thank everyone for their comments. Every tractor suggested has been checked out, and every bit of advice has been noted. Like I said, it's a process, and who knows? I may end up with a PowerTrac after all. We DO live only an hour away from the factory.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Personally "I will never wheelbarrow another load of anything ever again" and am thankful to have something other than a shovel to move earth.

Amen brother!

And yes I definitely see the utility of a backhoe (that's why I initially wanted one) but we can always add it later.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Did you get the opportunity to get some seat time (playing with one at the lot)?

yep. It felt HUGE to me. I'm sure that will change but that's where I am.

 

[farmer2009]

yep. It felt HUGE to me. I'm sure that will change but that's where I am.

When you find the one you want. Ask the dealer about a demo at your place. May only be a day with the salesman or they may drop it off over a weekend. Not only will this let you know how it will perform on your place and terrain but it will also help you gauge the dealer. A dealer that says no to a demo may not be one to do business with. If everyone says no then it may be a regional thing. Around here good dealers will demo.

 

[Creamer]

yep. It felt HUGE to me. I'm sure that will change but that's where I am.

Yep. It will seem huge when coming from a garden tractor and very shortly it will seem normal and then you will want something bigger. That is when you start figuring out how to get the job done with what you have which is what you have been doing and want to make it easier with a better tool. That is why I encourage you to not go too small.

 

[SpringHollow]

If you live only an hour away from Power Trac then you should visit - they have play areas on "hills" so you can get a feel for how they would be on your property. I would HIGHLY encourage you to follow the earlier advice and try anything you buy on hills like you have first. And the size of the tractor is important too. By playing with the various tractors and attachments, you will get a better feel for what you like, what they can do and how long it would take to do it. I can dig a basement with a teaspoon but I would not like how long it would take. Having said that, you can always hire out the big jobs. I have 15 acres of hilly land. Started out with 18HP, then 25, then 40, and finally 60. 40 HP and that tractor's weight were fine for what I do but it could not handle the mud or slopes. The real big negative of my 60 HP Power Trac is that it can only lift 1200 lbs. It is the only PT I have owned. I am not sure what the slope capacity is of their 1800 and 2400 lb lift capacity machines. I believe the more conventional 1200 lift machine is rated for 30 degree slopes.

Ken

 

[Coyote machine]

GWWT,
I know you seem to have your heart set on a Mahindra tractor.
I have to ask again, since I have seen no comments on the Kioti brand by you, maybe I missed them?
Is there no dealer in your wheelhouse? Is there another reason you haven't considered them?
Unlike Mahindra, you can get whatever you want, FEL, no FEL, hoe, no hoe, etc.
I'm just curious; I'd hate to see you pick something without giving Kioti a shot at meeting your needs. They have a lot of models and are really competitively priced.

I agree with those who suggest you see if a trial at your place is possible, before buying.
What seems huge compared to a LGT is just a matter of what you're used to.

Thanks for listening.
Oh, BTW, check out Mahindra's forum here on TBN to see what the issues are, or aren't, for a particular model. Same with any brand you seriously consider buying.