A safer alternative to Roundup

[Sodo]

What I was saying (pointing out) is science is used in flagrantly dishonest ways to push an agenda.

Science is chosen because people trusted "science" and it's a pretty easy vehicle to confuse people because they can't go 'prove or disprove science claims' themselves. The only way you can make any sense of these things is to "follow the money". Ask yourself "who is likely to benefit from this?"

If they will profit from it, then be more skeptical. If all they get is a passive benefit like clean air, and hope their well doesn't get polluted, then maybe just sit back and watch. Hard for me to understand why people take an ally who's got his hand in their back pocket.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

If they will profit from it, then be more skeptical. If all they get is a passive benefit like clean air, and hope their well doesn't get polluted, then maybe just sit back and watch.

True ... but ....

In this age of ideology over ethics, profit is not always the major obvious factor. Big government wants the global warming scam as a base for expanded power. Once declared factual, this agenda would allow intrusive/confiscatory powers that most of us can't even imagine.

I didn't mean to derail the thread - just trying to make a related point on the issue of science being trustworthy when it is influenced by political powers.

 

[Sodo]

In this age of ideology over ethics, profit is not always the major obvious factor. Big government wants the global warming scam as a base for expanded power.

Once big industry has control of government you will see intrusive/confiscatory powers beyond your scariest dreams. One could easily argue that we're already there.

Government on one side of the table and Industry on the other, is a healthy arrangement. Where each has a healthy respect for the other is ideal.

 

[Creamer]

I guess the old ways are not necessarily the good ways. As an old dentist friend of mine said many times - aspirin would not be approved by the FDA under today's guidelines. I grew up in agriculture where we did minimum tillage and used some chemicals for weed control - typically a type of 2,4-D. Since the land is still in the family I can see how things have evolved into no-till with solely chemical wed control. My initial reaction was that this was not good but when I go out to the farm now and see the crops and the yields they get and look at the soil and see the evidence of microorganisms working in it and see that they do not need to drain or farm around areas that were always a problem now because they naturally drain I see a much better way to farm. They are not trying to overpower nature with tillage, they are working with nature. Using corn varieties that have increased levels of BT rather than putting on an insecticide to protect the plant against rootworms isn't killing the rootworms or other organisms it is just making the rootworm avoid the corn more. Opening up the ground and seeing lots of things moving is encouraging to me that we are not harming the planet and its organisms like we used to. My nephews have shown me places where they got a tractor stuck and say it will be five years for it to naturally recover to producing the yields it was - we never used to think about that.

I do not want to pooh-pooh the concern people have about new chemicals and the side effects as i am very concerned about them too. I just know the new ways my nephews are using on the farm look a lot better to me than what we used to do - not only in yields, but in the condition of the soil, resistance to erosion, and overall a much more natural state. A black field may look nice but it is not anywhere near a natural state - when I see one now I think what harm has been done.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Trust No One.

 

[Ken]

I would simply tell the lady that if she wants me to recondition her pasture, you will do it, but it will be done your way and not her freaked out by the media way. If she says no, then forget it, tell her to come get her horses from your pasture, etc.

I have no patience for brain dead folks who let media hype rule their lives without giving a thought to whether what is reported as fact actually is. Data can be used to prove just about anything you want, either side of the coin that you want to prove using the SAME data.

Gary Ever have a person tell you how bad tobacco is to smoke while sucking on a left handed cig. ?
ken

 

[Jstpssng]

I guess the old ways are not necessarily the good ways. As an old dentist friend of mine said many times - aspirin would not be approved by the FDA under today's guidelines. I grew up in agriculture where we did minimum tillage and used some chemicals for weed control - typically a type of 2,4-D. Since the land is still in the family I can see how things have evolved into no-till with solely chemical wed control. My initial reaction was that this was not good but when I go out to the farm now and see the crops and the yields they get and look at the soil and see the evidence of microorganisms working in it and see that they do not need to drain or farm around areas that were always a problem now because they naturally drain I see a much better way to farm. They are not trying to overpower nature with tillage, they are working with nature. Using corn varieties that have increased levels of BT rather than putting on an insecticide to protect the plant against rootworms isn't killing the rootworms or other organisms it is just making the rootworm avoid the corn more. Opening up the ground and seeing lots of things moving is encouraging to me that we are not harming the planet and its organisms like we used to. My nephews have shown me places where they got a tractor stuck and say it will be five years for it to naturally recover to producing the yields it was - we never used to think about that.

I do not want to pooh-pooh the concern people have about new chemicals and the side effects as i am very concerned about them too. I just know the new ways my nephews are using on the farm look a lot better to me than what we used to do - not only in yields, but in the condition of the soil, resistance to erosion, and overall a much more natural state. A black field may look nice but it is not anywhere near a natural state - when I see one now I think what harm has been done.

That's the most thought-out and definitive statement which I've ever read in defense of pesticide use... and I've been around forestry, landscaping, and agriculture all of my life; plus was once a licensed applicator in three states... The attitudes and actions of the people I was working for really turned me away. Most pro pesticide people simply get defensive and resort to name calling when the subject comes up, as has been very apparent in this and other threads.

 

[Redneck in training]

Makes no sense to me either ... but, lots of people push it as a fact.

What I was saying (pointing out) is science is used in flagrantly dishonest ways to push an agenda. Man-made global warming is an excellent example of such shameless abuse. Some would say banning certain chemicals, or even defending those chemicals, could be another.

There is no question that global warming is man made. Republican party is a hostage of Evangelical Christians. Admitting man made global warming they would have to admit that god is not in control. They can't do it.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

There is no question that global warming is man made. Republican party is a hostage of Evangelical Christians. Admitting man made global warming they would have to admit that god is not in control. They can't do it.

OK, you made 4 comments there ...

1. No Question? This is total BS. There are 1000s of scientists who dispute the claim. This is FAR from settled.
2. Hostage to Evangelicals? LOL. The GOP Machine is almost a twin of the democrats. They may say some Christian things but just mostly for votes.
3. Admitting means God not in control? God is ALWAYS in control. That doesn't mean we can't make a mess of things.
4. Can't do it - Can't admit? Nonsense. If it was true, I'd admit it in a heartbeat. Your premise about God's lack of control is false on its face.

 

[rswyan]

I'm not sure, but I don't think politics/religion belongs in this particular forum ...

Jus' sayin' ...