Mix hydraulic fluids ?

[Soundguy]

it will be extremely hard today, to buy at UTF fluid.. from any botteler.. that will not meet the specs for a old ford like that. ( which is a good thing! )

 

[FlyingLP]

it will be extremely hard today, to buy at UTF fluid.. from any botteler.. that will not meet the specs for a old ford like that. ( which is a good thing! )

Possibly. I have a neighbor who was involved with Scouts at the same time as my family. He was running an old Massey (I don't know the details; sorry); but, he did some work on the front-end loader. In the course of that job, he drained the hydraulic oil and replace it with a UTF. The pump worked just long enough to get the tractor out of the shop, but when he lowered the bucket, it would not pick it up again. The hydraulic pump had simply stopped producing pressure. He finally got hold of an old shop manual for his hydraulic pump, discovered it specified "30 weight oil" for winter use and "40 weight oil" for "warm weather." He replaced the UTF with a "straight-grade motor oil" (40 weight) and the hydraulics went back to working.

Again, I don't know the tractor details; just heard the "grousing" over several weeks at meetings because his tractor was "stuck" in the middle of his driveway -- which was, apparently, very unhandy ;-) So, bottom line, UTF fluids do not always meet the "specs" of older equipment just because they are newer. In my neighbor's case, at 10W to 20W, UTF did not meet the 30W minimum weight requirement. He would have needed at least an ISO100 oil for that -- which in our area is a special order, and not 'cheap' by any means ;-)

I run AW46 or AW68 (when I can get it) in my 4500's hydraulics. Either is in the "range" (40 to 80 cSt @ 40C) of a "20 weight" oil.

The generic "tractor fluids" they sell hereabouts all have good anti-corrosion, anti-wear, anti-foam, anti-etc properties; however, they vary considerably in viscosity from brand-to-brand; many are ISO 32 -- which is equivalent to "15W" oils; and, for some, that info is hard to locate. (So what, exactly, is the viscosity of "Big R Universal Tractor Fluid; and, did any of its salient properties change when the store became "North 40 Outfitters," or did they just re-label all of the buckets?)

Rather than having to research "generic UTFs" for specific information, or read the unreasonably small (for my old eyes) print on "name brand" labels, I just stick with the AW/ISO labeled oils for my hydraulic sump. I've had good success with the AW46 year-around; but, as you might expect, the AW68 fairs better it the warm weather (less "seepage" around old seals).

My $0.02 worth
(and that is inflation!)
--LP--

 

[Soundguy]

Well, I see people don't actually read my posts!

I said old ford. not old massey.

Some old ferguson use a similar belly pump as fords, but for some reason they really, really, really like the 90wt original rear end / hyds oil, it was similar to a gl-1 oil.

Can't always compair different tractor makes.

As far as iso 46/68 and other straight hyd oils.. just make sure you don't run them in sumps that are also tranny or rear end gear cases... Those sumps need UTF.


As far as UTF for the old fords. CNH reccomends it's UTF fluid for all older fords even back thru the 1939 9N.

 

[fortec]

Just one word of warning. If you do buy a universal fluid make sure that you get a reputable brand. There are many on the market that are, to say the least, rather dubious products with inferior performance.

 

[Soundguy]

Just one word of warning. If you do buy a universal fluid make sure that you get a reputable brand. There are many on the market that are, to say the least, rather dubious products with inferior performance.

however.. I don't think you can find a modern UTF today that won't be suitable for something like an old Ford N.

Biggest problem with cheap UTF today is viscosity. some are like pudding when very cold.

 

[fortec]

however.. I don't think you can find a modern UTF today that won't be suitable for something like an old Ford N.

Biggest problem with cheap UTF today is viscosity. some are like pudding when very cold.

Unfortunately some of the 'UTF' products being sold are grossly inferior and are, according to published articles and industry contact quotes, a real concern. Apparently some companies are selling products that are undertreated or, even worse, have no additive content at all! That's why I am saying buy a reputable brand product.

 

[Soundguy]

Havnt seen any no add utf. The few I buy , I check their published test / specs.

 

[fortec]

Havnt seen any no add utf. The few I buy , I check their published test / specs.

As long as you read the labeling carefully. For instance does it say approved or does it say 'recommended'? There can be a big difference 'recommended', by who, the company selling it? Think I'm exaggerating?

 

[Soundguy]

As long as you read the labeling carefully. For instance does it say approved or does it say 'recommended'? There can be a big difference 'recommended', by who, the company selling it? Think I'm exaggerating?

I don't think you are making it up.. I just think that some of it may not be 'important'.

IE. your argument of wording, reccomended vs approved and your suposition of reccomended by who? the seller. Ok.. throw that at approved.. approved by who? the seller. Both would be at issue.

Now enter in a tractor not made for 60-70 ys, orphaned for the most part except by limited legacy parts support, or completely orphaned . It's not like there will be an oliver or massey harris dealer to set around and test and approve oils.

Look at the oils in use in 1939... I don't think you can find a modern oil today that won't exceede what a 9n left the factory with. even if it is the cheapest, weakest add package available. While we are talking oil.. remember.. if a bottle lists a spec, you hit liability if you lie. IE. if a bottle carries a API rating, or other similar specified ratings, if they don't at least meet, then you have lawsuit material. I believe it was supertech a few years back that had a mis labeling feature, and you better believe they got called on the carpet for it.

When it comes to UTF, and cheap utf here are 2 things I see .

1, cheap utf.. IE, the 19-25$ for 5-6 g pails. You see a marginal oil that has a BAD viscosity index.. IN other words, it will be like jelly when cold, and won't meet modern rating standards or change intervals. However... in the case of an old tractor... the old tractor wasn't designed around modern ratings and change standards!

While I would not put 19$ utf in my brand new John Deere or New holland 40000$ 90hp tractor working in FLORIDA, I wouldn't think twice about putting it in a 1939 ford 9N. The viscosity won't matter, as the original hyd oil was also a GEAR oil, so it's already expecting a thick oil , and by design they used a scotch yoke pump, not a vane pump.

To evidence this. you see some UTF pails that don't actually list a spec, they will just say suitable for non modern tractors. Very likely a save face for having an out of date or out of spec oil. For instance, see an cheap UTF listing a JD 303 spec? That's a QUITE OLD spec back to when they used SPERM WHALE OIL!!!!! Again.. wouldn't put it in my 2004 New holland.. but wouldn't mind it in my 1970's era yanmar! ( that called for that spec! )

 

[sashooter]

I don't think you are making it up.. I just think that some of it may not be 'important'.

While I would not put 19$ utf in my brand new John Deere or New holland 40000$ 90hp tractor working in FLORIDA, I wouldn't think twice about putting it in a 1939 ford 9N. The viscosity won't matter, as the original hyd oil was also a GEAR oil, so it's already expecting a thick oil , and by design they used a scotch yoke pump, not a vane pump.

As for a 53 naa the specs in the owner manual are outdated. That being said can you use any UTF fluid in both the transmission, and hydraulic systems?

It looks like they would have separate sumps on the naa's as what I can tell?

Any that you would recommend?