Any suggestions on how to prevent groundwater from running off of neighbor's sideyard slope towards my house and into my basement? The slope is too great to add dirt to the edge of my house in order to build it up level to neighbors property. I thought of digging a swale on my property-line or laying some sort of pipe, gravel. I am just not sure what will work best. Any details will be greatly appreciated. Below is photo. Thank you.
How to keep the water out of my basement
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KiotiKowboy
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buickanddeere
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Kioti pretty much covers it. Keep the run off from reaching your home.
We insulate the footing and wall to prevent condensation and dampness inside the basement. Then install drain tile below the depth of the footing. Apply water proof wrap to wall. From top of tile to a couple inches above the finished grade around the house. Backfill with drainage stone from tile to a couples inches from the top of grade.
I don't know how the planner,builder and municipal inspector all missed that booby trap ?
We insulate the footing and wall to prevent condensation and dampness inside the basement. Then install drain tile below the depth of the footing. Apply water proof wrap to wall. From top of tile to a couple inches above the finished grade around the house. Backfill with drainage stone from tile to a couples inches from the top of grade.
I don't know how the planner,builder and municipal inspector all missed that booby trap ?
dave1949
Super Star Member
That is a tight space to work with. Shoot the developer.
French drains are good at drawing away water below the surface but not so good at catching surface run off unless you back fill with course rock all the way to the surface. Then the problem is keep crap out of the rocks; pine needles, grass clippings, mulch, etc. will eventually plug the spaces between the rocks and the water will pass over them and continue down slope. You could back fill almost to the top, then cover the rocks with filter fabric, then place the top layer of rocks for appearance. You may be able to keep the top layer of rocks clean with a leaf blower and the fabric would keep the junk from going deeper.
An open swale would work but would be difficult to fit in the space available maybe due to the large difference in the lot elevations.
A retaining wall with drain pipe at the base might allow you to get the ground sloping away from that side of the house which is really important. Just guessing from the pic it might need to be 4'-5' tall which is quite a project and expense.
French drains are good at drawing away water below the surface but not so good at catching surface run off unless you back fill with course rock all the way to the surface. Then the problem is keep crap out of the rocks; pine needles, grass clippings, mulch, etc. will eventually plug the spaces between the rocks and the water will pass over them and continue down slope. You could back fill almost to the top, then cover the rocks with filter fabric, then place the top layer of rocks for appearance. You may be able to keep the top layer of rocks clean with a leaf blower and the fabric would keep the junk from going deeper.
An open swale would work but would be difficult to fit in the space available maybe due to the large difference in the lot elevations.
A retaining wall with drain pipe at the base might allow you to get the ground sloping away from that side of the house which is really important. Just guessing from the pic it might need to be 4'-5' tall which is quite a project and expense.
rswyan
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A french drain would be fine to handle any sub-surface water (assuming you have enough slope to wherever it will exit) ... but the last thing you want to do is construct it in a manner that allows surface water to go sub-surface ...
Defeats the purpose ... at least in your particular situation.
Like dave says: you need to keep the water away from the foundation ... that means you need a grade that slopes away from the foundation ...
Doesn't have to be all that much ... from the pic I'd guess you could get away with a retaining wall around 2' high ...
When I did the drainage around our barn, I installed a french drain (filter fabric, washed gravel, and perforated pipe with a soil sock) a couple of feet down, then back-filled over top of that with clay ... and then added a surface drainage system over top of that, using solid 4" pipe.
Ran tees (pointing up) every so often in the solid pipe, cut more solid pipe to the appropriate length for risers, and then capped those with atrium grates, so that leaves and debris wouldn't clog the openings.
Defeats the purpose ... at least in your particular situation.
Like dave says: you need to keep the water away from the foundation ... that means you need a grade that slopes away from the foundation ...
Doesn't have to be all that much ... from the pic I'd guess you could get away with a retaining wall around 2' high ...
When I did the drainage around our barn, I installed a french drain (filter fabric, washed gravel, and perforated pipe with a soil sock) a couple of feet down, then back-filled over top of that with clay ... and then added a surface drainage system over top of that, using solid 4" pipe.
Ran tees (pointing up) every so often in the solid pipe, cut more solid pipe to the appropriate length for risers, and then capped those with atrium grates, so that leaves and debris wouldn't clog the openings.
Thank you for all of your great suggestions. I do not want to go to the expense of digging down to the foundation (exterior) to install French drain; especially since I know that the water problem is being caused by surface water running down the small slope. I think I will look into a surface drain system that I can install. However, the atrium grates will catch the surface water, but where no grates are present, water will flow past. I may need a continuous channel drain all along the bottom of the slope. What do you think? Any recommendations. Thank you.
SPIKER
Elite Member
In this situation you WILL need help/permission from the neighbor up hill to get anything that is going to look pleasing and be functional... Hopefully they are willing to help with task in $ or labor?
"Assuming" your property line is the yellowish grass leading back towards the pine in far back you only have 6 or so feet on that side>?
There are LARGE 18"x24"x8" blocks with lips cast into the back so the wall is not vertical it steps back 2" or so for each level. Check local codes to see if there is a max height of wall like this as some places require guard rail or fence if the wall exceeds 4 or 5 vertical feet.
By digging down on your property (keep dirt for last fill & making your side more level) and installing a retainer wall of landscape blocks down the line. By placing perf pipe on (uphill neighbors side) of the block, back fill with gravel and top with a mix of the dirt you remove (see below.)
The perf pipe would need to be higher in middle and more towards neighbors side. With exit to sky at each end to drain the runoff out front/behind your home and move it away from the house. Gravel in behind the 4 or 6 high landscape blocks with plastic under the blocks and behind them to keep the water on that side long enough to flow out the ends & not thru to your side of the blocks.
By using the HEAVY plastic or EDM rubber liner laying on the slope and down to where first level of block start (8' wide by length of property) fold it in middle (double thickness length of property so you have 4' under and 3 or so feet on top layer.) The back side of the first row of blocks gets laid ON the fold of the plastic. Finish laying at least 3 rows of block then fold the top half of the plastic up over the blocks. Add layer of course sand pea gravel in fold of the plastic and pack it lightly into the fold so it fills in between the top/bottom plastic & up against back side of 1st row of block. Form that so a knoll is formed the level is created for the pipe to lay on & have slope out towards ends. Lay the pipe in and check it for slope to be sure and add some more back fill gravel pea size to slightly larger. Lay the plastic back over the gravel and pipe and build up one or two more rows of blocks. Continue this process until you are 2 levels of block from the final grade you & neighbor are OK going to (added benefit is level spot on BOTH sides of the wall.)
Once you have those blocks in the pull that plastic back against/over the blocks (exposing the gravel.) The plastic you pull back should set between the top and 2nd from top blocks. Lay landscape Fabric on top of the gravel/rock (trim plastic to fit & tuck landscape fabric edge under uphill side of plastic then fill using dirt for final grade (about 4~6" of loamy sandy soil is best.) The hillside under all the gravel/rock/sand has plastic so any water that does not make it into the pipe still flows out ends. The pipe makes a forever opening in the backside as over time the gravel may silt in. The loam/sandy soil for final grade needs to be permeable enough to let the water flow down into the gravel and not over the block. A last 1 foot or so wide patch of pea gravel against the top block will be final wick down into the below grade work.
M
"Assuming" your property line is the yellowish grass leading back towards the pine in far back you only have 6 or so feet on that side>?
There are LARGE 18"x24"x8" blocks with lips cast into the back so the wall is not vertical it steps back 2" or so for each level. Check local codes to see if there is a max height of wall like this as some places require guard rail or fence if the wall exceeds 4 or 5 vertical feet.
By digging down on your property (keep dirt for last fill & making your side more level) and installing a retainer wall of landscape blocks down the line. By placing perf pipe on (uphill neighbors side) of the block, back fill with gravel and top with a mix of the dirt you remove (see below.)
The perf pipe would need to be higher in middle and more towards neighbors side. With exit to sky at each end to drain the runoff out front/behind your home and move it away from the house. Gravel in behind the 4 or 6 high landscape blocks with plastic under the blocks and behind them to keep the water on that side long enough to flow out the ends & not thru to your side of the blocks.
By using the HEAVY plastic or EDM rubber liner laying on the slope and down to where first level of block start (8' wide by length of property) fold it in middle (double thickness length of property so you have 4' under and 3 or so feet on top layer.) The back side of the first row of blocks gets laid ON the fold of the plastic. Finish laying at least 3 rows of block then fold the top half of the plastic up over the blocks. Add layer of course sand pea gravel in fold of the plastic and pack it lightly into the fold so it fills in between the top/bottom plastic & up against back side of 1st row of block. Form that so a knoll is formed the level is created for the pipe to lay on & have slope out towards ends. Lay the pipe in and check it for slope to be sure and add some more back fill gravel pea size to slightly larger. Lay the plastic back over the gravel and pipe and build up one or two more rows of blocks. Continue this process until you are 2 levels of block from the final grade you & neighbor are OK going to (added benefit is level spot on BOTH sides of the wall.)
Once you have those blocks in the pull that plastic back against/over the blocks (exposing the gravel.) The plastic you pull back should set between the top and 2nd from top blocks. Lay landscape Fabric on top of the gravel/rock (trim plastic to fit & tuck landscape fabric edge under uphill side of plastic then fill using dirt for final grade (about 4~6" of loamy sandy soil is best.) The hillside under all the gravel/rock/sand has plastic so any water that does not make it into the pipe still flows out ends. The pipe makes a forever opening in the backside as over time the gravel may silt in. The loam/sandy soil for final grade needs to be permeable enough to let the water flow down into the gravel and not over the block. A last 1 foot or so wide patch of pea gravel against the top block will be final wick down into the below grade work.
M
s219
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That would not have passed code here, they are super picky about slope and drainage. Second the French drain idea, assuming you have a low spot to run it to. If not, try a surface swale.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
I am going to ditto what Spiker said a bit.
But first you need to know exactly, and I do mean exactly, where the lots lines are between the two houses. If that means hiring a surveyor so be it.
IF the lot line is where the good grass ends and the slope starts, then a retaining wall as Spiker suggests is what I was thinking was needed. However, I would not get the neighbor involved nor would I dig except to correctly installed the retaining wall block. You don't need a high retaining wall, just tall enough and with enough slope to move the water to the front or back of the house. Not sure which would be correct.
Building a retaining wall is not rocket science, I built one as the foundation for our barn, but it is hard work and you must level the blocks and keep them from moving. The block companies have very good instructions on how to do this and I bought my blocks at Home Depot. If your area has clay you could use clay instead of plastic or rubber as the water shedding layer though I would be inclined to use both. We had to use a specific clay to cover our septic field so that surface water would move on down hill.
In our city house, we had a similar problem with water run off from a neighbors house but the run off was just leaving a soggy mess. I dug a simple trench and filled it with sand, in hindsight I should have used gravel, cover the sand with fabric and then dirt. The trench was only about 18 inches wide and deep and maybe 20 feet long. I had to stop digging the trench due to tree roots. That little trench was enough to stop the wet yard problem. The soil was hard pan clay and I doubt much water sunk below the trench since the hard pan was like concrete. There were some homes in our neighborhood that were sitting in holes with water running in from four sides. How in the heck that was allowed is mind boggling. No basements but even with slabs, water flowing into a hole with a house is not a good thing.
I think in your case, I would put in a pipe on top of clay, if I could get it, AND plastic/EDM and them back fill with gravel and slope to where the water can drain best. Put geotextile fabric on top of the gravel. At that point you could add soil for grass or add maybe river rock or something that would look good. I would want to add something to mark the lot lines after all of this was over done.
Part of the problem is the gutter on the front of the house. That gutter looks to be handling a fair amount of roof thus water. The gutter should be tied into the system to move the water away from the foundation. Retaining wall blocks are buried so that at least the first course is below grade so a trench is needed. It might be a good idea to have a bit wider trench to allow a drain pipe to handle the other rain that falls into the area between the house and the retaining wall. The space between the retaining wall and house is going to make a big trench ditch so water needs to be moved out of there was well.
Try not to make the space so tight that working/replacing the heat pump will be difficult.
Retaining walls do not have to be straight, they can have curves which might look better than a straight wall.
Later,
Dan
But first you need to know exactly, and I do mean exactly, where the lots lines are between the two houses. If that means hiring a surveyor so be it.
IF the lot line is where the good grass ends and the slope starts, then a retaining wall as Spiker suggests is what I was thinking was needed. However, I would not get the neighbor involved nor would I dig except to correctly installed the retaining wall block. You don't need a high retaining wall, just tall enough and with enough slope to move the water to the front or back of the house. Not sure which would be correct.
Building a retaining wall is not rocket science, I built one as the foundation for our barn, but it is hard work and you must level the blocks and keep them from moving. The block companies have very good instructions on how to do this and I bought my blocks at Home Depot. If your area has clay you could use clay instead of plastic or rubber as the water shedding layer though I would be inclined to use both. We had to use a specific clay to cover our septic field so that surface water would move on down hill.
In our city house, we had a similar problem with water run off from a neighbors house but the run off was just leaving a soggy mess. I dug a simple trench and filled it with sand, in hindsight I should have used gravel, cover the sand with fabric and then dirt. The trench was only about 18 inches wide and deep and maybe 20 feet long. I had to stop digging the trench due to tree roots. That little trench was enough to stop the wet yard problem. The soil was hard pan clay and I doubt much water sunk below the trench since the hard pan was like concrete. There were some homes in our neighborhood that were sitting in holes with water running in from four sides. How in the heck that was allowed is mind boggling. No basements but even with slabs, water flowing into a hole with a house is not a good thing.
I think in your case, I would put in a pipe on top of clay, if I could get it, AND plastic/EDM and them back fill with gravel and slope to where the water can drain best. Put geotextile fabric on top of the gravel. At that point you could add soil for grass or add maybe river rock or something that would look good. I would want to add something to mark the lot lines after all of this was over done.
Part of the problem is the gutter on the front of the house. That gutter looks to be handling a fair amount of roof thus water. The gutter should be tied into the system to move the water away from the foundation. Retaining wall blocks are buried so that at least the first course is below grade so a trench is needed. It might be a good idea to have a bit wider trench to allow a drain pipe to handle the other rain that falls into the area between the house and the retaining wall. The space between the retaining wall and house is going to make a big trench ditch so water needs to be moved out of there was well.
Try not to make the space so tight that working/replacing the heat pump will be difficult.
Retaining walls do not have to be straight, they can have curves which might look better than a straight wall.
Later,
Dan
rswyan
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I don't know about any of the surrounding terrain that is outside of the frame in the picture, but if you are correct that the problem is being caused by the surface water in the particular area, I'd say you probably correct about not needing a french drain.
OTOH, I will point out that digging right next to the foundation isn't really necessary - the french drain I installed on our polebarn is 10' out from the building perimeter.
Continuous channel is pricey - but it's your dime.
You need to slope the area so that the water will run to the risers and grates (and away from the foundation) if that is the way you elect to go.
You will need to have a downslope from the building down to the risers and grates ... so that water won't "flow past" ... grates being the low point.
I'd probably look at installing the drain as far away from the foundation as you can (8' or 10' ?) ... stick a tee with a riser and grate in every 5' or so ...
In any event, do not do anything that will introduce more surface water into sub-surface soils ... make any (surface) water you collect go into solid pipe.