muddstopper
Veteran Member
All I can say after reading this and watching the video is what a mess. To many things wrong here to even start. First off, your 25hp electric motor isnt big enough to pump 30gpm of combined oil flow at 5000psi. Wont work, end of story. Then there is the issue of chain size and speed. To start with, chain speed should be double the 3150ft/min you are shooting for with the 3/8 chain. I havent checked any of your math, but the 5.7hp number you mentioned would make your hydraulic chain saw somewhere in the 50cc chainsaw size, but running at half speed. I think I will agree with your assessment that your saw isnt cutting like it should. Now on down in the thread you are swapping out a .404 pitch chain and going with a 12 tooth sprocket, good luck with that, it still wont work with your current hydraulic motor, pump pressures and flows. i think you also said you would be going with a different f11 motor, but you dont even have enough power to run the smaller motor so I dont think your changes are going to help. If you check the specs for a husquvarnia 3120 chainsaw, you will see that the saw makes 8.5hp, and if you have ever ran one of those saws, you will know that even with that much power, it still cuts slow using a .404 pitch chain. Chain speed is 5265ft/mi and it has 7.7nm/torque at 6000 engine rpms. f11 motors are high rpm low torque motors and require very high pressures to make power. You aint going to get there with what you have.
I am not going to comment on all the automatic stuff you have going on. My experience with automation is its a maintenance nightmare. Sounds simple enough, push a button and the work is done for you. Real life is someone will have to constantly babysit the machine and trouble shooting problems can take longer than just cranking up a chainsaw and grabbing a axe. I think you are building your machine off the wrong information and it might be time to step back and rethink your plans. A few changes I would make are using a bigger power supply, or downsizing the hydraulic requirement. I would also forget about using any of the f11 motors to build the saw. Yes they work wonderful, if you have the power to run them, (you dont), but because of their high pressure and flow requirments, they can add considerable cost to the machine. Not only in the actual cost of the F11 motor, but in high pressure pumps, valves, and hoses. Most of the processor manufacturers are using gear motors because they are simple and they work. They dont turn the rpms that f11 motors do, but they make tons more torque. Forget about motor rpms and concentrate on chain speed instead. Get your .404 chain speed up to around 6000ft/min and your saw hp up to around 10 or so. This can be done using a larger cuin gear motor (I suggest around a 2cuin motor) using more oil flow at lower pressures than with the f11motors. Also consider using a proportioning valve to split up your hydraulic pressures and flows so that your log clamp, saw cylinder and saw motor runs off one circuit. You can supply the proportioning valve with oil by using one of your solenoid valves to make it a "push a button" and let the valve do its thing. Set up properly it should clamp the log, start the saw and then lower the saw into the log and with using a pressure switch/or limiting switch, once the log is cut, it should just rise back up to wait on the next cut. Those valves run around $500 or so. Another thing I would consider is buying a actual 2 stage pump for your splitting cylinder. You can get a 28gpm 2stage pump and piggy back it off of your saw pump. This would eliminate at least one pump from your system and lower your hp requirements by a bunch. You can run this thru your solenoid valves and probably eliminate a few of those as well. Might take some trick wireing to get the solenoid valves to switch automaticly, but again limit switches and maybe a momentary switch, will do the trick. What else you running, a conveyor to feed the log, can be pulled off the saw circuit since you wont be advanceing a log and sawing at the same time, Just add another solenoid valve and subplate to that circuit, you are down to 3 solenoid valves and a few limit switches. Need a wedge cylinder circuit, and a live deck, just add a couple of more solenoid valve to your saw circuit because you wont be sawing and using those other actions at the same time anyways. Your down to 5 solenoid valves and two pumps and no longer have a need for the combining valve you must be using for the twin pump setup for the splitter cylinder. Looks like most of this stuff is already on your machine.
Just to add, if you go with a 2cuin or larger motor for your saw, you can get by with a lot less hydraulic pressure, around 1000psi or so. This will cut down on your engine hp requirements considerably, but your still going to need flow to get the speed you need. (I havent done the math, but figure on 20-25gpm). The 28gpm 2stage pump will require around 16hp, but using a electric motor that requirement is probably lower as well. My suggestions should get your hp requirement down into the range where you can use what you already have. Take the time to do the math or have someone do it for you before you start making wholesale changes to your machine.
I am not going to comment on all the automatic stuff you have going on. My experience with automation is its a maintenance nightmare. Sounds simple enough, push a button and the work is done for you. Real life is someone will have to constantly babysit the machine and trouble shooting problems can take longer than just cranking up a chainsaw and grabbing a axe. I think you are building your machine off the wrong information and it might be time to step back and rethink your plans. A few changes I would make are using a bigger power supply, or downsizing the hydraulic requirement. I would also forget about using any of the f11 motors to build the saw. Yes they work wonderful, if you have the power to run them, (you dont), but because of their high pressure and flow requirments, they can add considerable cost to the machine. Not only in the actual cost of the F11 motor, but in high pressure pumps, valves, and hoses. Most of the processor manufacturers are using gear motors because they are simple and they work. They dont turn the rpms that f11 motors do, but they make tons more torque. Forget about motor rpms and concentrate on chain speed instead. Get your .404 chain speed up to around 6000ft/min and your saw hp up to around 10 or so. This can be done using a larger cuin gear motor (I suggest around a 2cuin motor) using more oil flow at lower pressures than with the f11motors. Also consider using a proportioning valve to split up your hydraulic pressures and flows so that your log clamp, saw cylinder and saw motor runs off one circuit. You can supply the proportioning valve with oil by using one of your solenoid valves to make it a "push a button" and let the valve do its thing. Set up properly it should clamp the log, start the saw and then lower the saw into the log and with using a pressure switch/or limiting switch, once the log is cut, it should just rise back up to wait on the next cut. Those valves run around $500 or so. Another thing I would consider is buying a actual 2 stage pump for your splitting cylinder. You can get a 28gpm 2stage pump and piggy back it off of your saw pump. This would eliminate at least one pump from your system and lower your hp requirements by a bunch. You can run this thru your solenoid valves and probably eliminate a few of those as well. Might take some trick wireing to get the solenoid valves to switch automaticly, but again limit switches and maybe a momentary switch, will do the trick. What else you running, a conveyor to feed the log, can be pulled off the saw circuit since you wont be advanceing a log and sawing at the same time, Just add another solenoid valve and subplate to that circuit, you are down to 3 solenoid valves and a few limit switches. Need a wedge cylinder circuit, and a live deck, just add a couple of more solenoid valve to your saw circuit because you wont be sawing and using those other actions at the same time anyways. Your down to 5 solenoid valves and two pumps and no longer have a need for the combining valve you must be using for the twin pump setup for the splitter cylinder. Looks like most of this stuff is already on your machine.
Just to add, if you go with a 2cuin or larger motor for your saw, you can get by with a lot less hydraulic pressure, around 1000psi or so. This will cut down on your engine hp requirements considerably, but your still going to need flow to get the speed you need. (I havent done the math, but figure on 20-25gpm). The 28gpm 2stage pump will require around 16hp, but using a electric motor that requirement is probably lower as well. My suggestions should get your hp requirement down into the range where you can use what you already have. Take the time to do the math or have someone do it for you before you start making wholesale changes to your machine.
