Amsoil OE ??

Copperhead · Jul 22, 2015

WilliamBos said:
I check the two points you mentioned on the other fotum, TBN to be under 10? And NOACK under 12? Amsoil is under those two Dexos critetia.

TBN can be any level, but dexos1 spec requires that the oil have a NOACK below 12. TBN is just part of the additive package in the oil that controls acids that build up over time in the oil in use in the motor. Generally, the higher TBN, the longer the oil can be used before changing. As acid increases, TBN decreases. The general consensus in the lubrication field, is that once TBN reaches half of what it started out with, then the oil is due to be changed. The only way to determine that is with used oil analysis, and most folks aren't into doing that. Suffice to say, the Amsoil OE will last for the length of the standard oil life monitor system of most motors.

Like others, I buy my oils either by the drum, case of jugs, or case of quarts, depending on what I am getting and for what it is being used in. Volume purchases are where the best deals are. And there is no real shelf life to a motor oil, so buying enough for a few oil changes is not problem.

The best place i have found to do comparisons on oils is the Petroleum Quality Institute of America. These folks have no stake in the marketing game, they just take a wide range of oils and do analysis on them to see the formulations. They just post the results and the individual can see side by side how various brands stack up against one another.

The Petroleum Quality Institute of America

WilliamBos · Jul 22, 2015

Thanks Copperhead! If my truck was able to handle T6 5,W40, I'd run it, but apparently the VVT don't like 40 weight oils.

WilliamBos · Jul 22, 2015

clemsonfor said:
I have not used amsoil in anything but two stroke air cooled stuff. I have not seen it local and thier prices on the web are rediculos when compared to say Mobil1 which i consider a very good synthetic oil.

crashz said:
clemsonfor,

I would normally agree, but have noticed in the past year or so that prices for M1 products (and other store bought synthetics) have shot through the roof! The normal prices exceed Amsoil full synthetic in some stores! I think normal price for 5w-30 M1 is $9.99 per quart at the box stores. Not sure about Wally World. I think I paid the dealer fee and about $7.50/quart for Amsoil full syn, and bought trans oil and other stuff to make the purchase worth it.

If M1 is on sale, I buy it. I'm on a Rotella kick right now due to the mail in rebate. When the on shelf synthetic is regular price, I'll order Amsoil at a minor discount.

M1 is grossly over priced up here. $16.99/L, close to $60 for a 4.4L jug, they are not getting my money when other options exist. Car Quest Canada full synthetic is bottled by Irving Canada (for Canadian sales) and is a top notch oil for less. Amsoil is priced lower then M1, figure it's worth a shot.

Diamondpilot · Jul 22, 2015

WilliamBos said:
M1 is grossly over priced up here. $16.99/L, close to $60 for a 4.4L jug, they are not getting my money when other options exist. Car Quest Canada full synthetic is bottled by Irving Canada (for Canadian sales) and is a top notch oil for less. Amsoil is priced lower then M1, figure it's worth a shot.

That is crazy the price of M1 is up your way. I can buy two jugs and two top quality oil filters for less than your single jug.

Chris

WilliamBos · Jul 23, 2015

Diamondpilot said:
That is crazy the price of M1 is up your way. I can buy two jugs and two top quality oil filters for less than your single jug.

Chris

For years M1 Full synthetic was not much more than regular Dino oil, I ran it exclusively, then the price went up. I try to catch it on sale. Same with Fram ultra filters - $13.99 but go on sale for $9.99.

dodge man · Jul 24, 2015

If you joins Amsoils "club" for something like $20 a year, you get a pretty good discount.

RUSSELL SHETTLE · Jul 24, 2015

Amsoil is one of very few that make a true 100% synthetic oil. "Full" Synthetic means its oil base is "hydrocracked", a further refinement process taken from crude oil stocks with additives of course. Most synthetic brands fall into this category. Still, full synthetics are still far better than conventional and they would all be "SN" rated. Personally I would go with the "Signature" line of Amsoil for maybe a few bucks more if you're looking to have the best of the best. I'm not an Amsoil dealer or a private seller. I've know about Amsoil since 1973 with Mobil one first came out. At that time, Mobil One was stating it to be a 100% synthetic with a 25k mile change interval. They have changed to now say "Full" Synthetic. When I discovered why, I was disappointed with Mobil, though I've used it most of the time. I've used others as well including Amsoil. Amsoil is the only one I've sure of that makes a true 100% synthetic. Red Line and Royal Purple might be 100%. I'm not sure. Today, I order my oil directly from Amsoil and have it shipped.

Copperhead · Jul 25, 2015

Well, this whole what is a "true" synthetic is a canard. It was something several years ago, but means virtually nothing today. Group III "faux" synthetics offer many great qualities, including a couple that are BETTER than Group IV PAO "true' synthetics. Actually, the best synthetics today are a mix of Group III and Group IV synthetics, taking advantage of the special qualities of each group. It is virtually a total waste of time playing the Group IV vs Group III thing. Even many of Amsoil's product line has a combination of Group III and Group IV. Even Amsoil is smart enough to not play in the Group III vs Group IV game, knowing full well that there are special qualities to each group that brings something to the party. And even Group IV "true" synthetics are made from natural gas. Well, actually ethylene gas that is derived from natural gas. Group IV PAO is just another variation on carbon chained molecules. Every base oil from a Group I thru a Group V is a carbon chain structure.

And, Amsoil makes NOTHING. They do not make one drop of synthetic base oil. They are a blender. The purchase base oil from Mobil, Shell, and other sources. They get their additives from the standard suppliers like Infineum and Lubrizol. Being a blender is not a bad thing, but it is what Amsoil is. Schaeffer, the brand I use the most, is also a blender. They have been putting out very good quality oils and greases longer than anyone else in N. America, since 1839. They even put together a special open gear lube that Shell could not replicate to meet a customer demand, so Shell just has Schaeffer make it for them.

And since the additive package makes up to 25% of most every motor oil, it is as critical as the base oil itself. I would take a Group III "faux" synthetic with a killer additive package long before I would consider a Group IV "true" synthetic with a mediocre add pack. And TBN is just one characteristic of the add pack. There is a lot more to the mix. Amsoil like to pile on the TBN to promote the longer oil change intervals. And TBN's main purpose is to control acid buildup in the oil. When you look at the other aspects of the add pack, it is not something that is heads and shoulders above anyone else. Zinc, Moly, Calcium, Sodium, and other aspects of the add pack and how the levels compliment the characteristics of the other components, including the quality of the viscosity improvers, has as much to do with motor oil performance as does the base oil.

Actually, some of the best oils are one that are a Group III/IV combination with a high quality add pack.

And if you do your research, oils and lubes made from whale oil are still classified as "true" synthetics, but you can bet your bottom dollar that I am not putting whale oil in my pickup. But regarding the Group III "faux" synthetic vs Group IV "true" synthetic.......

Performance of Base Oils and Future Trends - The Evolution of Base Oil Technology - Part 3

RUSSELL SHETTLE · Jul 25, 2015

Copperhead said:
Well, this whole what is a "true" synthetic is a canard. It was something several years ago, but means virtually nothing today. Group III "faux" synthetics offer many great qualities, including a couple that are BETTER than Group IV PAO "true' synthetics. Actually, the best synthetics today are a mix of Group III and Group IV synthetics, taking advantage of the special qualities of each group. It is virtually a total waste of time playing the Group IV vs Group III thing. Even many of Amsoil's product line has a combination of Group III and Group IV. Even Amsoil is smart enough to not play in the Group III vs Group IV game, knowing full well that there are special qualities to each group that brings something to the party. And even Group IV "true" synthetics are made from natural gas. Well, actually ethylene gas that is derived from natural gas. Group IV PAO is just another variation on carbon chained molecules. Every base oil from a Group I thru a Group V is a carbon chain structure.

And, Amsoil makes NOTHING. They do not make one drop of synthetic base oil. They are a blender. The purchase base oil from Mobil, Shell, and other sources. They get their additives from the standard suppliers like Infineum and Lubrizol. Being a blender is not a bad thing, but it is what Amsoil is. Schaeffer, the brand I use the most, is also a blender. They have been putting out very good quality oils and greases longer than anyone else in N. America, since 1839. They even put together a special open gear lube that Shell could not replicate to meet a customer demand, so Shell just has Schaeffer make it for them.

And since the additive package makes up to 25% of most every motor oil, it is as critical as the base oil itself. I would take a Group III "faux" synthetic with a killer additive package long before I would consider a Group IV "true" synthetic with a mediocre add pack. And TBN is just one characteristic of the add pack. There is a lot more to the mix. Amsoil like to pile on the TBN to promote the longer oil change intervals. And TBN's main purpose is to control acid buildup in the oil. When you look at the other aspects of the add pack, it is not something that is heads and shoulders above anyone else. Zinc, Moly, Calcium, Sodium, and other aspects of the add pack and how the levels compliment the characteristics of the other components, including the quality of the viscosity improvers, has as much to do with motor oil performance as does the base oil.

Actually, some of the best oils are one that are a Group III/IV combination with a high quality add pack.

And if you do your research, oils and lubes made from whale oil are still classified as "true" synthetics, but you can bet your bottom dollar that I am not putting whale oil in my pickup. But regarding the Group III "faux" synthetic vs Group IV "true" synthetic.......

Performance of Base Oils and Future Trends - The Evolution of Base Oil Technology - Part 3

Thanks for this super response Copperhead.

My main concern right now: I just bought a John Deere D130 Lawn Tractor and learned about the weakness of the Hydrostatic Transaxles due to the heat it generates for the oil. Oil breakdown due to heat is what causes these cheap Transaxles to fail over time and are considered non-serviceable. Tuff Torque, the manufacture of the Trans, recommends using or changing to a 5W50 synthetic if you do a rebuild or oil change yourself. I've seen several YouTube vids of people having to rebuild their Trans due to the damage cause by the original conventional oil used in them.

I changed the oil in mine just 3 days ago. I completely voided my warranty doing this. I don't care about the warranty. The Transaxle has to be completely removed in order to drain out the oil. That's the hard part about it. There is no drain plug but I'm mechanically capable with doing this. There was only 7 hours running time on my tractor when I did this. I changed to oil with Castrol 5W50 Syntec "Edge" ($10.50 per quart) It was the only 5W50 Full Synthetic available at the auto store. I was really looking for Mobil One but I didn't feel like driving all around and I was in a rush.

The oil change went fine. Got it all back together and it runs great. I feel like I've saved my Transaxle for a long service life because I did this early, not waiting for signs of trouble.

My desire now is to find the best synthetic that can take the most "HEAT".... Which one is best for HEAT? That's what I would like to know since heat is the killer of oil and the primary cause of Hydrostatic Trans wear and failure.

I ordered 3 quarts of 5W50 Signature Amsoil from their website, due to arrive soon. I'll save it for my next change. Tuff Torque recommends changing it again after the first 50 hours and then 200 hours after that. They don't specify any specific brand of synthetic. They only say to change it a 5W50 synthetic from the 10W30 conventional.