CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours

[Fawken]

I spent a dozen years in retail environments, managing sales and service departments. My advice:
1) Speak to the decision maker. EVERY company has someone who has the authority to fix your problem - your job is to climb the ladder until you gat to that person. Remember, EVERYONE can say NO, you need to get to the person who can say YES.
2) Know what you want. In this case, you should want Kioti USA to step up and replace or rebuild the engine. That's the minimum. I'd also REQUEST that they provide use of a loaner of some sort if this will be a protracted repair.
3) DO NOT make threats. State your position - "This failure was in no way my fault, it appears to be a concealed defect, and I am asking for Kioti to fix it in good faith. Are YOU the person with the power to make that happen, or do I need to contact someone above you? Can you help me reach the person who can fix this?" Assume that anyone that tells you NO is doing so because they are not authorized to tell you YES.
4) Don't ask for a new tractor - and don't settle for a used replacement engine. Neither is fair to both parties. Fair is fixing yours correctly. (Of course, if they offer a new tractor, accept with profuse gratitude!)
5) Be calm, positive, and firm. Involve your dealer first, enlisting his help in reaching the Kioti rep. The dealer cannot fix your problem, but they can get you heard by Kioti, who can and most probably will fix the problem. You are, after all, giving them the opportunity to protect their brand's reputation - and they value that.

This was good advice. You should at least carry it through. Also, I would not post your game plan here at this point in the game.

 

[liberty2701]

I have been reading this post and sympathize with your situation. I do have a problem with you saying that the tractor will be sold off after possibly putting in a piston. If the tractor is repaired why would you not keep it? My hope is that you will disclose to the next buyer what repairs had been done so he does not end up with a bad tractor a year later ( maybe you intend to do this). This is morally and ethically the right thing to do. Good luck to you and hopefully Kioti Makes it right.







QUOTE=CenTex Chris;4207960]Well... actually... Kioti is aware of the situation. They have not stepped up yet. I have a dialog with a customer service rep and so far, that's all it is.

The last communication I had with them was Friday. The gist of it was: "We have gotten the process started, but we will not have a definitive answer for you today. There are many variables to consider."

I'm not counting on anything. They could very easily say they're sorry and just walk away. The warranty is expired, after all. I have no expectations whatsoever. We'll see what happens (if anything).

There will be no lawsuit. While it is very true these days that you can sue anybody for anything, the fact is I don't have those kinds of resources. And with an expired warranty I don't think there's any case. It would be different if a number of other CK owners were affected, but that's not what this is. Besides, the amount of money required to mount a legal action would probably pay for a complete rebuild plus a brand new tractor. I can't afford that. What I can afford is my friendly neighborhood non-Kioti diesel mechanic to swap out a piston and then I'll put the thing on CraigsList. You folks are the impetus for that... at first I ready to sell it "as is" and take a bath on it. Now I'm thinking it's salvageable as a sellable tractor.

Whether or not Kioti decides to step up has yet to be seen. I'm *hoping* they do. I'm *expecting* they won't. The avoidance of disappointment is a pessimist's advantage. I trust y'all understand that.

Again, many thanks to everyone here.[/QUOTE]

 

[CenTex Chris]

I do have a problem with you saying that the tractor will be sold off after possibly putting in a piston. If the tractor is repaired why would you not keep it?

If Kioti replaces all three pistons or the entire engine, then sure, I'll consider keeping it. But I think those options are just pipe dreams. If they realistically replace just the one broken piston -- or worse, and even more realistically, if I have to resort to a non-Kioti shop to replace just the one broken piston (because that's all I can afford) -- then every time I climb into the seat I'm going to be wondering how far behind are the other two. Or, what's going to fail next. So yes, for mental health purposes, I'll have to sell it.

My hope is that you will disclose to the next buyer what repairs had been done so he does not end up with a bad tractor a year later ( maybe you intend to do this). This is morally and ethically the right thing to do.

Of course! That goes without saying. It would be a huge help to me if Kioti warrants a piston replacement for a period of time and allows it to be transferable. That would make the tractor so much easier to sell.

I would not post your game plan here at this point in the game.

I'm happy to disclose it. My game plan moving forward is: I'm not loaning out my tractor anymore.

 

[aczlan]

If Kioti replaces all three pistons or the entire engine, then sure, I'll consider keeping it. But I think those options are just pipe dreams. If they realistically replace just the one broken piston -- or worse, and even more realistically, if I have to resort to a non-Kioti shop to replace just the one broken piston (because that's all I can afford) -- then every time I climb into the seat I'm going to be wondering how far behind are the other two. Or, what's going to fail next. So yes, for mental health purposes, I'll have to sell it.

If they will only pay for one piston, I would recommend that you pay out of pocket for the other two. The labor (while they are in there) shouldn't be much more and then you wont have to worry about it.
I would also send out the oil sample now to see how worried I needed to be about the oil pump and how much cleaning the oil passages would need.

Aaron Z

 

[SPYDERLK]

I'm happy to disclose it. My game plan moving forward is: I'm not loaning out my tractor anymore.

There is no way your neighbor could have hurt that engine without doing something akin to the ether start trick.

 

[dusty3030]

If they will only pay for one piston, I would recommend that you pay out of pocket for the other two. The labor (while they are in there) shouldn't be much more and then you wont have to worry about it.
I would also send out the oil sample now to see how worried I needed to be about the oil pump and how much cleaning the oil passages would need.

Aaron Z

I wonder if they have a kit with it all. An option would be to see if the dealer / manufacturer would sell the OP the kit at cost or a big discount.

 

[Coyote machine]

A single piston replacement isn't the end of the world. If it's done right, and there is no reason to think it won't be, it could last a very long time. Think about this Chris; you were driving a time bomb and didn't know it, then your neighbor managed to set it off. It might have only lasted 200 hours but it lasted 400. There is no logical or practical reason to think that a new piston or anything else will go wrong on your existing engine. The single piston blew because it had a flaw, dropped, misinstalled, who knows. But now that flaw is gone. Diesels get rebuilt all the time. A single piston, sleeve, rod bearings, etc., may not be a complete rebuild, BUT it is your engine back together and ready to work. If you can't stand the thought of using it because something else might go wrong, that's just not realistic given your situation. You could pony up for all three pistons, but I don't see where that is necessarily any more advantageous to you, and would be more costly as well.
Personally, I'd ask Kioti to have your dealer do the teardown to determine exactly what is toast, and from that assessment make an offer to you for what they're willing to do for you at their expense.
That may be what's keeping them from proceeding at this point- figuring out a game plan that will be least costly to them, if they pick up the tab.

 

[CenTex Chris]

There is no logical or practical reason to think that a new piston or anything else will go wrong on your existing engine.

Not the new piston... but the other two. That's what makes me nervous. The dealer doesn't want to touch them.

You really need to remove the other two piston/pin/rod assemblies and inspect the following at a minimum:

- Other pistons for any cracks or excessive wear. Use dye-penetrant and UV light inspection on the pistons.
- The condition of the liners (bore surfaces) in the other cylinders
- The crankshaft rod journals for possible wear from debris. You can always replace the rod bearings but if the crank is all scratched up..... you might be screwed.
- Also check the cylinder head while it's off. Especially in your damaged cylinder, debris could have gotten up atop the piston and into the valves/seats.
- While the engine is apart, clean everything out real good. Wash and flush that contaminated oil out of there.

This checklist and how the labor cost is split, is what it's going to come down to.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Maybe they do a damage assessment as far as their reputation. One breakdown might not cost them as much as reairing or replacing the engine or part. So they just rather say sorry and don't set a precident that they do repairs out of warranty.

I'm sorry to say that I almost never lend out powered equipment. And even when I do, to trusted friends, things always seem to come back sounding a bit different. I know, it's probably just in my head!

 

[Teachu2]

Maybe they do a damage assessment as far as their reputation. One breakdown might not cost them as much as reairing or replacing the engine or part. So they just rather say sorry and don't set a precident that they do repairs out of warranty.

I'm sorry to say that I almost never lend out powered equipment. And even when I do, to trusted friends, things always seem to come back sounding a bit different. I know, it's probably just in my head!

I'm at a point where I'm hesitant to loan out anything to anyone - especially family members. I'd rather pay for a rental for them for a day, or give/buy them a tool they need rather than have to go find/fix/replace mine. I upgraded my table saw a while back, and kept the old one as a spare. When #2 son developed an interest in woodworking, I gave him my "spare" - he was thrilled, and it was a perfect size for his use. He takes excellent care of it, which he never seemed to do with borrowed tools. When he wanted a router, I went online and found a bargain on a closeout model Craftsman (better than the one I own) and bought him one. He was thrilled with the gift, and I was happy to give it to him. He gets to enjoy using a nice router any time he wants, and I know where mine is if I need it.

My tractor has one operator. If it's scratched, bent, or broken, I know exactly what happened and who did it. I'll help out others, but I'm driving. If the job is more than I'm willing to take on, they can rent one, hire it out, or buy their own - just as I would if I didn't have what I needed.