VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean?

[sd455dan]

I spent a considerable amount of my professional life in Environmental enforcement, Air Quality in particular. While it was industrial and not automotive emissions, I can tell you this much; the industry I was used to dealing with would struggle to meet the emissions requirements, but they expected the agency to make their competitors do the same. My guess is that if other manufacturers kept their mouths shut, they also had something to hide. I would also venture that VW's competetion had something to do with the unveiling.

As for the management knowing what was going on, I can see a CEO mandating: "Make this engine meet the emissions requirements by the end of the year. I don't care how you do it, just do it". Having worked in R&D also, I suspect the details were on a need-to-know basis only. Technical folks may be a bit ****, and their information limited, but you can bet your boots they had a pretty good idea what was going on. You give as few folks as possible the opportunity to say "That's illegal, I'm not doing it". I have seen things filter down that I knew were not on the up-and-up, but couldn't prove it. Will watch with interest as this thing unfolds.

I can see it now- The hand picked manager under the CEO has a little meeting with any engineers that knew...
Yeah- um this is just part of the employees standard NON DISCLOSURE agreement you signed when we hired you:laughing:

 

[Coyote machine]

The USA Today article is worded incorrectly. VW didn't program the computers to produce phony results during testing. They programmed the computers to operate the emissions systems normally during testing, and at reduced levels when not testing. Read some other articles on it.

What you need to know about the Volkswagen scandal

You read some other articles. What you linked to didn't say anything different. A 'defeat device'; software intentionally programmed shift to produce results the vehicle does not render, IS a phony result. An intentional skewing of the test results that renders a false positive result is still a false result. You guys can beat this to death, but in the meantime everyone knows, including the sacrificial lamb Winterblobbin, that VW tried to beat the EPA and lost. End of story. Whenever there are emails, trails, defeat devices, as VW has used before and been caught, things end badly. Too bad, so sad. Crooks get justice. Do the crime, do the time.

 

[ruffdog]

What was found, how it was found and by whothis wasn't just a probe in the exhaust that caught them)
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/214730-how-independent-researchers-tracked-down-vws-diesel-software-hacks

 

[MossRoad]

You read some other articles. What you linked to didn't say anything different. A 'defeat device'; software intentionally programmed shift to produce results the vehicle does not render, IS a phony result. An intentional skewing of the test results that renders a false positive result is still a false result. You guys can beat this to death, but in the meantime everyone knows, including the sacrificial lamb Winterblobbin, that VW tried to beat the EPA and lost. End of story. Whenever there are emails, trails, defeat devices, as VW has used before and been caught, things end badly. Too bad, so sad. Crooks get justice. Do the crime, do the time.

Yes, it did say something different. It said the system works correctly when in test mode and bypasses in drive mode. It did produce results that the vehicle did render. Its not a phony result. Its a completely accurate result when tested on a dyno. That's how it works. Its important to understand how things work and its important to not spread incorrect information.

 

[MossRoad]

What was found, how it was found and by whothis wasn't just a probe in the exhaust that caught them)
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/214730-how-independent-researchers-tracked-down-vws-diesel-software-hacks

Nice article. Thanks. :thumbsup:

That road test equipment looks like part of the back to the future car! Where's the flux capacitor? :laughing:

 

[Coyote machine]

Yes, it did say something different. It said the system works correctly when in test mode and bypasses in drive mode. It did produce results that the vehicle did render. Its not a phony result. Its a completely accurate result when tested on a dyno. That's how it works. Its important to understand how things work and its important to not spread incorrect information.

According to you. Doesn't matter which mode one looks at. The compliance is not present, and the cars are locked on the dealer lots. VW perpetrated false advertising, skewed tests by using defeat devices, and has been caught. Now the wrongdoing can be dealt with, regardless of how anyone spins how things got to where they are now.

The cars in question defeat the test, (hence a defeat device being needed to defeat the test), by skewing the results to make the testing procedure think the car is in compliance. The bottom line is these cars do NOT and will not comply with the EPA standards required for use on roads in this country. And, this is why they are not being sold anymore. I understand exactly how things work. You are the one with the misleading, incorrect information, and NO, USA Today did not incorrectly state anything. You just fail to grasp what is being said, and what it means.

Fictitious example of the logic behind VW's 'defeat device' to further exemplify the point of what happened: I 'found' copies of all the answers to the SATs. I got the highest score possible. I passed the test! Yeah, I'm brilliant. Oops, I cheated, but I passed the test. Wrong, I falsified the results, and made it look like I passed, but I only defeated the purpose of the test, so I could show the results I wanted to be seen.

 

[MikePA]

Repeated posting of your opinion and flawed analogies doesn't turn them into facts.

 

[Mikeeemo]

All of this effort points to a bigger issue, overly stringent emissions rules. The EPA have basically waged war on a market that has been destroying the diesel engine. Not just in car, but all diesel applications.

The VW engine, does meet the rules, but in doing so, it negates the efficiency that diesels are known for.

 

[tcartwri]

VW already issued an emissions recall this spring and reflashed the ecu. It still didn't get them within limits. ( we ignored the recall fortunately )

 

[Mikeeemo]

The new normal is to use more fuel to do the same thing. That is one of the most counter intuitive concepts. If your to pollute less, then figure out how to use less fuel.

I am not giving VW a pass, This situation just frames up the real problem.