VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean?

   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean? #191  
It's easy to understand. As long as it applies to someone else. Do you want an EPA official nosing around your place?? We all violate. We all contribute to "The Skies Falling" scenario.

Someone who cares can look it up,,,,, I'm sure China offsets our attempt to purify the World by dozens if not hundreds of times.

The EPA can kiss my grits. :)

You are a small fry and not worth the EPA's attention. Don't get your panties in a twist. EPA is after bigger game who do in fact create Love Canals and gross air pollution etc. Are you seriously defending VW from the EPA???
 
   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean? #192  
Did you? I get that you, among others, think if VW 'passed' the dyno, and only led the EPA to believe the diesels in question were compliant on the road, because they passed the dyno/lab test that the whole clean diesel concept is not a complete deception from beginning to end on VW's part.
None of what I've stated to date is based on 'my opinion'. I have quoted, cited, and shown various links to world new agencies, and you guys have tried to say they, USA Today and others, are wrong.
They can't all be wrong, especially since they are independent sources from around the world. Believe what you want to; it makes no difference to me.



So a picture of a Chevy diesel is supposed to address what I've said to date? How exactly? Low performance? Compliance to EPA standards? If they are actually meeting the EPA standards, good for them. Then they must know something VW and Toyota don't. If so, which I suppose is in the realm of possibility, what is it they employed that no one else can seem to match to comply with the CARB and EPA compliance requirements?
BTW, I hope your Cruze is a good car for you. Best of luck, and lets hope that Chevy didn't cheat the requirements too.:thumbsup:

I think his point is clear enough. Chevy brought out a decent diesel that GM says does meet EPA requirements. We'll know soon if they do as EPA is going to be testing all engines on the road from this point on. I'm willing to give GM benefit of the doubt. The Cruze is a nice little car.
 
   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean?
  • Thread Starter
#193  
Did you? I get that you, among others, think if VW 'passed' the dyno, and only led the EPA to believe the diesels in question were compliant on the road, because they passed the dyno/lab test that the whole clean diesel concept is not a complete deception from beginning to end on VW's part.
None of what I've stated to date is based on 'my opinion'. I have quoted, cited, and shown various links to world new agencies, and you guys have tried to say they, USA Today and others, are wrong.
They can't all be wrong, especially since they are independent sources from around the world. Believe what you want to; it makes no difference to me.



So a picture of a Chevy diesel is supposed to address what I've said to date? How exactly? Low performance? Compliance to EPA standards? If they are actually meeting the EPA standards, good for them. Then they must know something VW and Toyota don't. If so, which I suppose is in the realm of possibility, what is it they employed that no one else can seem to match to comply with the CARB and EPA compliance requirements?
BTW, I hope your Cruze is a good car for you. Best of luck, and lets hope that Chevy didn't cheat the requirements too.:thumbsup:

No one is in disagreement with you that they cheated. No one. They were deceitful. Everyone agrees with you on that point, too. Its the method of the cheating that folks are tying to get you to understand or discuss at least. :rolleyes:
 
   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean? #194  
No one is in disagreement with you that they cheated. No one. They were deceitful. Everyone agrees with you on that point, too. Its the method of the cheating that folks are tying to get you to understand or discuss at least. :rolleyes:

Yes, I understand that VW made the pollution controls work only for the dyno test, and turned them off when the cars were on the roadways. My point is the whole concept of a 'clean diesel' is smoke and mirrors from VW. They intentionally set out to beat the system, (EPA regulators/regulation in the US markets). They accomplished this until the Virginia testing stumbled upon the real results of on road Nox.

To me, this means they cheated the EPA test sequence, even though the results were real on the dyno, they could not/cannot now meet the EPA requirements. Some work around may now be implemented, but it seems unlikely based on all the factors needed to retrofit the cars that the fix would be anywhere near economically feasible.
Time will tell what happens next.

As to the Cruze diesel, it will be interesting to see what happens to it too.
 
   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean? #195  
...but it seems unlikely based on all the factors needed to retrofit the cars that the fix would be anywhere near economically feasible

As I said many posts ago, simply leaving the ECM in 'EPA Mode' might be all that's needed which would be economically feasible. However, this would render the VW diesel just another, run of the mill, diesel car.
 
   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean? #196  
I think his point is clear enough. Chevy brought out a decent diesel that GM says does meet EPA requirements. We'll know soon if they do as EPA is going to be testing all engines on the road from this point on. I'm willing to give GM benefit of the doubt. The Cruze is a nice little car.
We have two of them. I drove one from Boston to MD and back and averaged 48.7 mpg, without even trying.

The test that showed the VW to be violators also included a BMW X5, which met the standards. Jeep GC'ss have a 3L VM Motori engine as well.
 
   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean? #197  
As I said many posts ago, simply leaving the ECM in 'EPA Mode' might be all that's needed which would be economically feasible. However, this would render the VW diesel just another, run of the mill, diesel car.

It might be feasible, but highly unlikely. If it were that simple to implement across the platform of all vehicles affected it would already be a widely discussed solution. And it seems the reality is they are just another run of the mill diesel, when one looks at the real tailpipe output when not in EPA test mode. VW is between a rock and a rock. YRMV
 
   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean? #198  
As I said many posts ago, simply leaving the ECM in 'EPA Mode' might be all that's needed which would be economically feasible. However, this would render the VW diesel just another, run of the mill, diesel car.

That will probably fix the car, but that's not going to fix the problem.
 
   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean? #199  
Open Source the answer?
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/2...tml?_r=0&referer=http://www.drudgereport.com/

As an Embedded Linux Architect, I tend to agree!

Here are some excerpts:

'One model that N.H.T.S.A. has studied is the one now used by the Federal Aviation Administration, which regulates commercial aircraft. The F.A.A. dispatches representatives to plane manufacturers to directly oversee the software design process for the critical systems that control flying.

“They go in periodically, and say, ‘Show me what you’re doing and convince me that you’re doing a good job — or else I’m not signing off, and it’s not going in an airplane,’ ” Mr. Koopman of Carnegie Mellon said. “Can you tailor this so that it works for the car business? That’s a question I don’t have an answer for. But it’s clearly an option.”

If it were to carry out those inspections, N.H.T.S.A. would need skilled people. The agency estimates that it has 0.3 staff members for every 100 fatalities in automobile crashes; the F.A.A. has at its disposal over 10,000 staff members for every 100 fatalities on commercial aircraft, according to N.H.T.S.A.

“Companies are trying to use state-of-the-art software,” said Mr. Gerdes of Stanford. “If you are going to attempt to regulate that, you need to have similar expertise in-house, and that can be challenging from a recruiting and compensation and talent perspective.'

'Given the challenges of regulating complex software, some experts are calling for automakers to put their code in the public domain, a practice that has become increasingly commonplace in the tech world. Then, they say, automakers can tap the vast skills and resources of coding and security experts everywhere to identify potential problems.

“We should be allowed to know how the things we buy work,” Mr. Moglen of Columbia University said. “Let’s say everybody who bought a Volkswagen were guaranteed the right to read the source code of everything in the car,” he said.

“Ninety-nine percent of the buyers would never read anything. But out of the 11 million people whose car was cheating, one of them would have found it,” he said. “And Volkswagen would have been caught in 2009, not 2015.”'

'Volkswagen, through its trade association, has been one of the most vocal and forceful opponents of an exemption to a copyright rule that would allow independent researchers to look at a car’s source code, said Kit Walsh, staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit advocacy group for user privacy and free expression.

“If copyright law were not an impediment,” he said, “then we could have independent researchers go in and look at the code and find this kind of intentional wrongdoing, just as we have independent watchdogs that check vehicle safety with crash-test dummies.”

“Keeping source code secret does not prevent attacks,” Mr. Koopman of Carnegie Mellon said. “Either the code is vulnerable or it’s not.”

In the past, the Environmental Protection Agency has sided with automakers and opposed making automotive code public. There is a community of computer car tinkerers who tweak code to improve performance. The E.P.A.’s logic was that car owners might try to reprogram their cars to beat emissions rules.

The Volkswagen trickery has turned that argument on its head. The agency declined to comment on the copyright issue, and on Friday it announced it would conduct additional emissions testing on carmakers.

“Is the problem of individuals modifying their cars individually more serious than the risk of large-scale cheating by manufacturers?” said Mr. Moglen of Columbia.'
 
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   / VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean? #200  
Each time I sign in to TBN there are banner ads for Diesel Emission Lawyers... never knew the field of law had become so speialized.
 

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