Need advice on starting up cattle and hay business/extra job

[RedNeckRacin]

I don't have any problem with tarps. We stack three bales high (4x6) triangle style ( 6 bales to the stack) 60 bales to the tarp. We do get some ventilation from the ends as they are not full covered. We also don't get snow here.

They are more work/aggravation than a barn, but I like them because I can put a portable barn any where I need it.

We stored around 2000 small squares under the tarps and I really don't recommend it. I had the sides of the tarp draped over the edges by 8 feet or so. Just enough that the bottom three rows were showing . We get driving rains and drifting snow so leaving the sides or ends open was not possible. I even pulled the edges out at an angle so that it would shed snow and rain farther away from the base. I'll admit that some air vents in the top would have likely fixed alot of this, but I could never come up with a good way to vent the tarps.

 

[Clint S]

I don't want to be offending in any way, but if I was going into something and someone saw, or thought they did I would want to know it. If I am wrong please forgive me and know that I only want the best for you.
You sound like someone with a romantic idea of farming from your youth with no idea of how to go about it.

1. do you know when hay is ready to cut? rake? bale?
2. Can you fix equipment.
3. have you ever maintained equipment.
4. Do you have the git up and go to get up and go when you are tired and wore out from the extra work?
5. Do you have help? are you going to put up 1000's of square bales of hay all by yourself?
6 Do you have the $$$$$$$ to cover the equipment without making any money from your labor as you learn.
7 Do you have the $$$$$$ to cover repairs, fuel, Ect without income from the hay?
8 If you don't have reliable help do you have the $$$$$$$$ to buy a hay system, to handle the hay for you?
9 What do you do if it rains on your hay?
Do I sound like I am trying to talk you out of it? I'm not, just trying to help you go in with your eyes open and no big suprises. I put up hay for years and know what it is like to have 500 bales of hay ready to bale and your help is hung over and doesn't want to get out of bed. Or the tractor-baler-whatever breaks at the worst time. Those things are hard but if you add to that a lack of know how it will be that much harder.

If after you read this you still want to do this you likely eather have what it takes or you are fooling yourself. My advice is don't try to grab the whole world at once. Start small. 10 ac will be pretty big for the first season and might even be to big, 5 might be better. Keep account of every penny you spend on that 1st field, not just most of your $$$$$ but every penny. That way you know better if you want to do the same field next year, or more or not at all.
I love getting up hay, I miss it and wish I could still work it into my life. I just don't want you putting your neck out without having some idea of what you are up to. Ed

Listen to what is said here. It is just not as easy as get the equipment and go.. You say you have the time?? What happens when your hay is ready Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday? You talk of sharing a round bailer. If your hay is ready and so is his and it's going to rain tomorrow who gets to use the bailer?? Have you ever put up 5 acres of small bales, just you and NO help. Please do your homework before you jump into something. We put in 4 or 5 5 acre lots for our cows and it takes 3 to 4 days for each lot. We do small bales with 2 70 year olds me (45) and 2 teenagers. 2 old guys cut and rake and drive and help some with the unloading. No way I could imagine doing it by myself and a 14 year old , even with a kicker. Gotta stop bailing to unload, How long just to stack and tarp. You would then need an army of wagons

 

[Creamer]

Thanks EVERYONE that has responded. what a great forum with great people. this has helped ALOT. looking at what everyone has posted; I have written everything down that I'm going to do BEFORE I buy anything. That will help for sure. Looking at everything that's needed I'm going to be very tight with my budget. take a look and tell me what I'm missing or if I'm wrong.
Baler--6k+-
mower--3k+-
rake---2k
tedder--2k
trailer--2.5k
wagon-3k
tarp storage-500

not needed but really needed
scrape--800
bush hog-800

All that NOT including the Tractor is $20,500+- for just implements. wow... but not too surprising. Am I missing anything? Is my pricing about right for good used equip. I believe it will be very hard to find a Good 50-60hp tractor with FEL for 10k though. Maybe I could bush hog and scrape till I get enough $$$ to buy everything idk.

Is anyone doing hay (that started up on your own) Making money at it?

***tried to edit on my phone and it deleted my last post***

I do not think you all this. In our area it is easy to find someone with a baler that will take care of you without much cost, i.e. you do not need to start out with a baler but they are nice to have and once in awhile you do get caught. But baling 10-15 acres an hour is not easy with most smaller round balers. Usually someone can fit you in.
Mower - if you are doing alfalfa or clover you will need a crimper otherwise it is not necessary and that will lower the costs. Sickle bar mowers handle grass hay just fine. I bought mine about 4 years ago for $300 and put another $100 into it.
Tedder is another nice to have but if you learn how to run an old wheel rake you can spread the hay if your windrows get wet. Again, if it is alfalfa or clover this can be more difficult as it tends to tangle and maybe you will need a tedder or a rotary rake which will do both.
Why a trailer and a wagon? Your 2500 truck will pull a trailer through the hay fields to pick up the bales and then deliver them to whereever. A haywagon for small squares works well to and is usually much cheaper - I see them at auctions for $1000-$1500 in good condition all the time.
An IH 656 tractor will do this work just fine and you can find them on Tractorhouse with loader listed for $6000. What you can buy them for will be less than that.

So if it was me and I had 80 acres I would start with 80 acres. 30 years ago I used to cut 60 acres a day with a 9' sickle bar and dump rake behind an M day after day. If you go for 10 acres you are not in business. If you have grass hay, I would start with a sickle bar mower and older five wheel rake. They are cheap and simple to work on and will get you started. Then you will need a tractor and any little tractor will handle these pieces of equipment - I use my 28 hp 1710 to pull my sickle bar and rake. You will need a larger tractor to load or stack big round bales though. (I use forks on my 3 pt to handle 4 x 5 round bales on my 1710.) I would not be scared of attacking 80 acres of hay with my 1710, NH455 mower, and IH 12' dump rake and having it custom baled then moving the bales with my 3 pt. Then you are going to need to address storage - I suggest hardwood pallets and hay tarps unless you can sell it right out of the field.

If you are going to do alfalfa, which will give you more cuttings and tonnage you will need better equipment, i.e. a haybine or drum type mower with a conditioner and the ability to spread the hay as well as rake it - either tedder and wheel rakes or a rotary. This will cost a little more but should return more. Also you are going to need a little more Hp for that type of mower. the baler can still come later.

If you do not do 40 acres you are just a hobby. 40 is less than a day of cutting. 30 years ago my brother and I put up 100 acres a day of alfalfa for many days on end - of course we were trying to feed 450 cows so it took a lot of hay.

The other side of things is that cows are not convenient - you cannot schedule them and fencing is not cheap. What happens when they get out when you are at work, or have birthing problems, or whatever else they may come up with that you did not schedule in? If you have 10 cows and one dies you have lost 10%. It takes just as much time to check and care for ten cows as it does 50. To me hay is much simpler when you have another job that has a schedule. When you think about it I have two nephews who run about 850 cows by themselves. I have another nephew that between him, his wife, and one hired man run about 800. When you think about labor efficiency how can you compare with just a few.

 

[flusher]

So what's your plan? Mow, rake and bale native grasses? Or plant a crop and go from there? Or both (divide your 80 acres into native and planted)?

 

[bbd 25]

I'm going to buy a few cows (angus. Mainly cause that's what my family deals with); hopefully a couple pregnant already. I'm going to talk to my uncle tomorrow to see what he thinks and ask about cows in his field and to see if he wants to go in partners. I know he wants a round baler and I have no problem buying one. He has a Tractor he just bought and all other hay equipment for square bales and cattle hauler. He don't have a round baler or a trailer to move his tractor.
So my plan is I'm going to buy cows and talk to my uncle about what he thinks I should do and about partnership. If he says no ill just put fence up by the house. Then go from there and buy what I NEED (after I talk to accountant and county ag agency). This has been my plan for the first part. I wanted to hear from what you all had to say and see the different views y'all would have. I got more than I ask (in a good way). Very thankful for this site. This is a great tool I bet ALOT of you wish you had when you started. Thank you all

 

[CDennyRun]

I'd still buy a tractor, and brush hog. There is good money in mowing peoples overgrown fields. Around here people charge anywhere from $40-95 per hour clearing brush, and mowing. Great potential for supplemental income. Plus you're going to need a tractor anyway. A used 40HP with FEL will do everything you'll need, plus pull a small baler in the future.

If you only get a few cows, you might break even... unless your hay is free or one of the fruits of YOUR labor. I'd take advantage of the pasture you have on your 80 acres. Fencing is cheap compared to buying hay exclusively for feed. I'd say screw it, and not go in as partners. Keep it simple! You know you can lean on them for help if you need it. Keep the animals on your property, and enjoy the convenience of having them in your back yard.

Just my 2 cents!

Chris

 

[bbd 25]

Thanks for input Chris.... Really appreciate it. I'm not doing the partnership. I talk to him today and didn't even ask. He only has 34 ac and w/ 32 cows right now so he's maxed out. I don't have 80 ac together. Its split b/w 3 tracks but all within 10 miles. I can put a couple around the house and that's exactly what I'm doing with a 20 ac tract. I'll just have to fence it up. I'm thinking to fence a couple acres first and expand later. I can pay for cattle with cash but I'll have to finance a Tractor and yes theres a good market for brush clearing and cutting around here too. Guessing best for money would be electric fence right? Solar? Or should I go ahead with the barb wire?

 

[JimRB]

Small squares are challenging for the hay farmers I talked to. Well actually get labor is the issue. A few of them solved that problem with New Holland equipment. You just need a tall barn so you can tipp the hay stacks in place. http://www.tractorhouse.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&Manu=NEW+HOLLAND&Mdltxt=1033&mdlx=exact

 

[CDennyRun]

Thanks for input Chris.... Really appreciate it. I'm not doing the partnership. I talk to him today and didn't even ask. He only has 34 ac and w/ 32 cows right now so he's maxed out. I don't have 80 ac together. Its split b/w 3 tracks but all within 10 miles. I can put a couple around the house and that's exactly what I'm doing with a 20 ac tract. I'll just have to fence it up. I'm thinking to fence a couple acres first and expand later. I can pay for cattle with cash but I'll have to finance a Tractor and yes theres a good market for brush clearing and cutting around here too. Guessing best for money would be electric fence right? Solar? Or should I go ahead with the barb wire?

Electric fence all the way! I've seen so many cows run over barbed wire like it was nothing. Cows are funny; one will freak out and decide to run through a fence, and any cow near it will follow suit. Electric fences do a pretty good job in my opinion, compared to barbed wire. I would buy a higher joule fencer than what people would get for horses. I would also make sure to have a small generator on hand in case power goes out. Solar fence chargers only last so long. Batteries go out, the solar cells age, and don't perform all that great in time, and eventually die. I learned this the hard way!

On the same note, T-posts are easy to install, and remove, and the same goes for the hot wire. You could probably fence ten acres for under $800 with the fence charger. New 6' t-posts are about $4.50 each, and a charger is roughly $100. Synthetic wire works great for our horse (not the synthetic ribbon), and is very visible. The ribbon/tape shorts out, and doesn't last long, and creates big problems. You could also go with aluminum wire, but cows can't see it as good as the white synthetic wire. You could also use field fencing with hot wire, which would be much safer (we paid $160 per 300ft roll of field fencing). Lot's of options out there.

 

[Creamer]

I am a believer in high tensile fencing with a hot wire - especially if you are around roads. The liability of cow getting hit is high. With high tensile you don't have to worry about the occasional power outage as there is a lot more fence there. I grew up with a lot of barbed wire and we had certain cows that would just crawl through it unless it was perfectly tight - and then they would rub on it until it was loose.