New land... need a tractor!!

[IslandTractor]

If you are climbing a grade with a full bucket of dirt the higher hp model will travel much faster, less time per trip. Pulling a box blade same thing, you can pull a fully loaded box of dirt faster, less time per trip. You can till the ground faster with a rotary tiller or disc too. While the weight of two similar models may be the same having more hp available allows a higher ground speed. If you are making a lot of trips it can save lots of time.

Are you trying to move full buckets of dirt long distances at 17-18mph??? Pretty dangerous unless you are on tarmac. And moving at 17 mph vs 15
mph saves maybe a minute an hour depending on distance travelled considering time spent loading and dumping. Sorry, I don't buy the faster road time argument. Road time is a trivial component of the process. And, do you drag race with a full box blade?? I never get out of mid range dragging a box blade. I'd love to see a video of your speeding dirt moving.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

IslandTractor understood what I was saying and you are the only one complaining about what I said so you are the only one that does not get it. If you find my posts confusing put me on your ignore list. I don't need someone critiquing everything I say.

Ignore that guy, he confused me...I thought I owned a cut, but maybe now I don't. ..:confused3:

 

[jenkinsph]

Are you trying to move full buckets of dirt long distances at 17-18mph??? Pretty dangerous unless you are on tarmac. And moving at 17 mph vs 15
mph saves maybe a minute an hour depending on distance travelled considering time spent loading and dumping. Sorry, I don't buy the faster road time argument. Road time is a trivial component of the process. And, do you drag race with a full box blade?? I never get out of mid range dragging a box blade. I'd love to see a video of your speeding dirt moving.

You make a lot of assumptions. I never said anything about road travel with a full bucket of dirt. But traveling up a slight grade without a fel on two tractors of the same weight but different hp makes a huge difference in travel speed.

It is my opinion that inclines make a huge difference in travel speeds and having more power available enables you to keep the speed up. I do quite a bit of box blade work in my laser leveling business and have posted many times about that work. I know what it takes to pull a box blade for sure.

You can disagree with me and that's okay too.

 

[IslandTractor]

That's not really the case. Most brands offer Utility machines that are under 60hp. Current models that are readily available: Deere 5045E and 5055E (45 and 55hp), LS U5020 and U5030 (47 and 55hp), Kioti DK55 (55hp), Mahindra 5545 and 5555 (43 and 55hp), Kubota M5140 (52hp), New Holland Workmaster 50 (53hp), Massey Ferguson 2605 and 2615 (38 and 49hp), and probably others I'm overlooking. The HP figures are engine, not PTO.

Now we have to precisely define the boundary between CUT and utility which is hard to do. Take the Kioti range as an example. The DK 50 and NX5010 are clearly CUTs. The DK55 weighs just a little more, has the same loader capacity and is essentially the same frame size. CUT or utility? The Mahindra 4550 and Kubota MX are about the same size as the two Kioti's too.

For me a utility size tractor is more like the Kioti RX range which is heavier, longer, wider and with a loader that is stronger than the DK50 or NX5010. The Mahindra 45 series kind of straddles the categories but frame size and loader are more CUT like. Utility tractors at this point never have HST either.

I know it is hard to draw the line clearly these days because companies have been tuning small engines to make >50 hp. That's why IMO it makes more sense to look more at frame and loader size and weight. I don't care if Kubota stuffs a 80 hp engine into a Grand L or if Kioti puts 80hp in an NX, it would still be a CUT.

 

[bcp]

I know it is hard to draw the line clearly these days because companies have been tuning small engines to make >50 hp. That's why IMO it makes more sense to look more at frame and loader size and weight. .

My feeling is that tractor weight is a better indicator than horsepower for category decisions.

As an extreme example, how many more plow bottoms will a 200hp Ford 8N V8 conversion pull?

Bruce

 

[newbury]

I don't understand this kerfuffle about the 50 hp breakpoint Bullitt mentioned. Yes, he technically should have slipped the word "over" into the sentence that said at 50hp it's best to go with a utility size frame but is anyone really having trouble understanding his intent?? For starters, there really are no utility size tractors built these days that are less than about 60 hp. More importantly, his main point about CUTs over 40-50 hp being simply identical to the lower hp versions except for engine tuning is the critical (and correct) point.

Unless you have only PTO power concerns, it makes sense to ignore the overpriced 50-60hp CUT category and choose between a 40-50hp CUT (IMO 45 is top unless the 50 has stronger loader) or a utility tractor virtually all of which these days have 60 or more HP.

I agree. And no flame intended toward anyone's tractor, but I believe anything 50hp and up should be on a Utility frame and no HST.

Now we have to precisely define the boundary between CUT and utility which is hard to do. Take the Kioti range as an example. The DK 50 and NX5010 are clearly CUTs. The DK55 weighs just a little more, has the same loader capacity and is essentially the same frame size. CUT or utility? The Mahindra 4550 and Kubota MX are about the same size as the two Kioti's too.

For me a utility size tractor is more like the Kioti RX range which is heavier, longer, wider and with a loader that is stronger than the DK50 or NX5010. The Mahindra 45 series kind of straddles the categories but frame size and loader are more CUT like. Utility tractors at this point never have HST either.

I know it is hard to draw the line clearly these days because companies have been tuning small engines to make >50 hp. That's why IMO it makes more sense to look more at frame and loader size and weight. I don't care if Kubota stuffs a 80 hp engine into a Grand L or if Kioti puts 80hp in an NX, it would still be a CUT.

You make a lot of assumptions. I never said anything about road travel with a full bucket of dirt. But traveling up a slight grade without a fel on two tractors of the same weight but different hp makes a huge difference in travel speed.

It is my opinion that inclines make a huge difference in travel speeds and having more power available enables you to keep the speed up. I do quite a bit of box blade work in my laser leveling business and have posted many times about that work. I know what it takes to pull a box blade for sure.

You can disagree with me and that's okay too.

Could you guys just get a room or your own thread? I think we scared docsfarm off.

 

[jenkinsph]

Why is it necessary to define the boundary between compact utility and utility tractors? And yes the lines are getting blurred because the manufacturers are building more models in between in hopes of selling more tractors.

 

[gladehound]

there will always be models that blur the lines and we will never agree where that line is exactly nor is it important. Get a tractor that does what you want it to do and just hope you don't tick someone off by calling it the wrong thing!

 

[jenkinsph]

Could you guys just get a room or your own thread? I think we scared docsfarm off.

You gonna cover the room and damage deposit?


Really the OP never participated in this thread very much. Hard to help the OP when he doesn't answer questions and doesn't pose any.
You a moderator now or just being bossy?

 

[murphy1244]

Wouldn't the difference between a cut and utility be cat 1 and cat 2?