Damaged block installing block heater L5240

[dodge man]

I'm going to throw another idea out here, maybe the oil and antifreeze problem is not related to installing the block heater, another problem may have cropped up at the same time.

 

[kuboman]

The block is surprisingly thin around the cylinders. I think if you do a search there is another thread where someone did the same as you.

 

[ovrszd]

Before I tore the engine down I would do some investigating. I would also get another set of eyes to help me, simply because I would so distraught that my power of reasoning would be junk.

I'd start with a piece of small wire that will enter the holes. I'd poke in and see how far the wire goes in before hitting anything?? What I'm reasearching is if the holes are above the piston when at BDC?? Or are the holes below the piston skirt at BDC?? Did I drill thru two cast iron walls?? That would have to be the case if I drilled into an oil passage. If I only drilled thru one cast iron wall the oil is getting contaminated with coolant only. This dramatically changes the course of action to fix it.

I'm struggling with oil puking out of the exhaust without any adverse engine sounds when running??? Maybe the crankcase immediately went over full enough to cause that?? And if that's the case and you removed the oil dipstick, wouldn't coolant eventually run out of the dipstick hole if you kept filling the radiator?? Gravity and such??

If the holes are above the piston at BDC wouldn't compression leak into the coolant system?? If so it would puke coolant when running??

I think these answers have to be found before you go any further. Depending on the answers the holes might be easy to repair. I think the biggest problem now is your coolant system is breached into the crankcase.

 

[Weaselfoot]

As I read through this account, my feelings began to agree with "dodge man'; that is I am not convinced that the problems with the water in the oil are related to the block heater installation. When I re-read your initial description of the drilling you stated, " I collected my thoughts and took a small nail and felt around in the small holes I had drilled. They are maybe 1/8" deep, 3 of them. Around 5/32" in diameter". If the holes have depth then they didn't penetrate any wall, otherwise you would have said the holes went through metal maybe 1/8 thick. None of the walls in the engine would be that thin. Look for another cause. This is just a cruel coincidence. You didn't mention that you drained the coolant before you started. I assumed that you did a quick replacement so that little coolant was lost. It would have been normal to tell us that you lost very little coolant. Was the coolant low to begin with? If so, what caused the coolant loss?

 

[Adiredneck]

I'm struggling with oil puking out of the exhaust without any adverse engine sounds when running??? Maybe the crankcase immediately went over full enough to cause that?? And if that's the case and you removed the oil dipstick, wouldn't coolant eventually run out of the dipstick hole if you kept filling the radiator?? Gravity and such??

Ovrszd:

I think I can explain this better. In relation to the radiator, which is the highest and lowest place where the antifreeze resides, I put in about 2 gallons of antifreeze. Figure that the block heater is approximately the height of the middle of the radiator. I estimate that I got about a gallon of straight antifreeze out of the drain plug. The tractor has the split drain pan with two plugs. The straight antifreeze flowed only out of the right side of the engine, the side of the block that the heater was installed. It reinforces my theory that the antifreeze was allowed to flow straight down into the pan with nothing else in the way.

If it comes down to it, I have located a machine shop that can weld the hole, bore the cylinder and re-sleeve at a fraction of the cost of a new block. I am becoming more optimistic as time goes on.

 

[kuboman]

The holes may not be above the piston at bdc but if they are there would not be much if any pressure inside the cylinder at that point. Anitfreeze that gets in the cylinder then blown out looks a lot like oil as it mixes with soot.

 

[ovrszd]

The holes may not be above the piston at bdc but if they are there would not be much if any pressure inside the cylinder at that point. Anitfreeze that gets in the cylinder then blown out looks a lot like oil as it mixes with soot.

At BDC of compression stroke there will certainly be some pressure, much more than the radiator would have. I agree with your description of the coolant blowing out the exhaust.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm struggling with oil puking out of the exhaust without any adverse engine sounds when running??? Maybe the crankcase immediately went over full enough to cause that?? And if that's the case and you removed the oil dipstick, wouldn't coolant eventually run out of the dipstick hole if you kept filling the radiator?? Gravity and such??

Ovrszd:

I think I can explain this better. In relation to the radiator, which is the highest and lowest place where the antifreeze resides, I put in about 2 gallons of antifreeze. Figure that the block heater is approximately the height of the middle of the radiator. I estimate that I got about a gallon of straight antifreeze out of the drain plug. The tractor has the split drain pan with two plugs. The straight antifreeze flowed only out of the right side of the engine, the side of the block that the heater was installed. It reinforces my theory that the antifreeze was allowed to flow straight down into the pan with nothing else in the way.

If it comes down to it, I have located a machine shop that can weld the hole, bore the cylinder and re-sleeve at a fraction of the cost of a new block. I am becoming more optimistic as time goes on.

I agree with your theory concerning the pure coolant in the ride side of the oil pan. I'm very confident you drilled thru the bottom portion of the cylinder. I'm thinking when you could only poke the nail in 1/8" you were hitting the piston skirt. You might try rotating the engine by hand to see if there's a point when you can poke your nail further in?? This would indicate the piston is at or near TDC and your nail is poking into the cylinder below the skirt.

I just can't think your holes are high enough to be above the piston rings and into the compression chamber. If so, there would be a LOT of strange things going on. Sortta like a blown head gasket allowing compression into a coolant jacket. Will puke coolant badly.

Not being able to see the situation it's a bit hard to give solid advice. If the holes are below the piston rings and the only problem is allowing coolant into the engine block I'd consider a shadetree fix such as JB Weld or some other quality product. All it's gotta hold is the pressure of your radiator cap. Maybe 15 psi?? Not sure about what your pressure cap is rated at??

 

[arkydog]

research cummins diesel 57 block crack in water jacket. there is a fix of inserting some kind of metal pin to fill the hole. the crack is fixed by drilling a series of holes in the crack for permanent repair. its on a dodge cummins 5.9 diesel block i think from around 93'-97'. they identify the cummins blocks that cracked by the number 57 cast in the side of the block. maybe this could be a solution for your fix. i know you don't have a crack, just a hole, but its a thought.

 

[rbargeron]

From the good points and observations given so far, it appears the hole is low enough to be below at least the top piston ring at BDC. It might be below the lowest ring too - which would mean a well-adhered soft patch might fix it. If the hole is above the rings compression pressure would show in the cooling system.

The drill point may have made only a small break-thru hole. Could use a needle to carefully explore. The piston skirt extends down far enough below the lowest ring so might always block a feeler in the hole regardless of engine position.

On the assumption that the hole is located near (or very near) the rings at BDC, I would NOT try to further drill or tap for a threaded plug. I'd do nothing that removes any more material.

There is no combustion pressure below the rings so there's only coolant pressure and it's in the right direction, especially if the hole is not full diameter all the way thru.

I think I'd try cleaning the area and pushing in a dab of RTV. It's a benign material that never gets hard enough to hurt anything if it comes loose, and more importantly can't damage the rings or the piston.

We're all wishing you the best in this situation - and many of us have BTDT if not precisely the same. (Some of us have done things even more spectacular) Try the easy stuff first before diving deep. Take care and go easy on yourself. Dick B

P.S. Another possibility would be to put a rubber plug in the freeze plug hole and hammer it back in so the plug seals off the drilled holes. There's plenty of flow area above and below it, and the block heater could go in a different plug hole.